Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Gunsmithing
Possible problem with 35 Whelen loads... >

Possible problem with 35 Whelen loads...

Gunsmithing Discuss repairs, modifications, designs, or building firearms here.

Possible problem with 35 Whelen loads...

Reply

Old 02-16-2011, 10:07 AM
  #1  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Arrow Possible problem with 35 Whelen loads...

Possible problem with 35 Whelen loads Or the problem could be a headspace issue in my rifle, a "new" Ruger M-77 in 35 Whelen.

I noticed the problem when I first obtained ammunition for the rifle, a couple of boxes of 200 grain Core-lokt Remington ammunition. Mainly, they fired ok and I shot some decent groups. But there would be the "misfire" or dud that would only have the presence of the firing pin strike, slightly off center. At times the duds would be 2 to 3 in a row before I would get a fire at this range session.

I then purchased 100 rounds of new Remington 35 Whelen brass, unprimed, and proceeded to load several with CCI large rifle primers. If I recall correctly, none of those loaded with CCI primers have been misfires or duds. Some of these were used again, the cases properly fire-formed to my rifle's chamber.

I purchased a new set of primers, this time Remington was the brand used, and again the misfires or duds appeared at my shooting range session. Now I should also add that I load and shoot a Browning BLR in .358 Winchester, and used the Remington primers in those also, and every single cartridge fired when I pulled the trigger.

So, with this set of circumstances in hand I took my rifle to a local gun shop and asked for their recommendation as I am doing here. They suggested that the firing pin in the Ruger was exiting the bolt sufficiently to cause ignition, but that the headspace in the chamber was allowing the cartridge to move forward enough to cause the misfire. Thus, I should send the rifle back to Ruger and allow them to change barrels.

I am inclined to believe the problem is my Remington primers however. Some of the fire-formed cases mentioned above also produced misfires with the Remington primers. Again, every cartridge loaded in the Browning BLR fired regardless of the primer used, CCI or Remington. The gunshop did note that the Remington primers were made tougher to fire than others, especially Federal primers. But since I had a problem with a box of new ammunition that I should send the rifle back to Ruger since a new rifle should be able to shoot any brand of factory ammunition.

I should add that I have loaded my own for several years, but I don't have a lot of expensive equipment. I have mainly loaded for the 30/06 with my Lyman 310 Tool, and have recently acquired the Lee Portable press and used the Lee standard rifle dies in 35 Whelen and .358 Winchester to load my ammunition for these rifles.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 02:43 PM
  #2  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Default ???

Not sure what you mean. I have no doubt that my cartridges chamber fully. I can certainly load and eject them by working the bolt, and the M77 bolt has the traditional claw type extractor of the Mauser tradition. Even if the shoulders are a bit back from what they should be, the extractor is closing on them like it should. Not sure if that means anything about the headspace or not. What will the tape across the bolt do?
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 09:33 AM
  #3  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 104
Default

Did someone at the gunshop run Go, No/Go gauges in your rifle to check headspace? Would have been very easy to do.
hoghunting is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 07:57 PM
  #4  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Default

Originally Posted by hoghunting View Post
Did someone at the gunshop run Go, No/Go gauges in your rifle to check headspace? Would have been very easy to do.
No they didn't, and yes that would have been easy to do. They removed the bolt from the gun and released the firing pin so that the pin protruded through the bolt in fired position. They didn't measure that either, but it was obvious the pin was out a significant amount and should deliver a firm strike to any primer. The firing pin strikes on the misfires is a significant dent.

I think I will get some new Federal primers and load a new batch. I have been able to get some very decent groups out of this rifle already so that is why I am inclined to leave it as it is. The misfires have come from new Remington 200 gr SP Core lokt ammo and handloads using new unprimed Remington brass stamped 35 Whelen that were primed with Remington primers.
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 03:07 AM
  #5  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 538
Default

Ridge gave you some very good advice, you should follow it. This definitely sounds like a headspace issue which the Whelen can be proned to due to the small shoulder and a slightly oversized chamber. Adjust your sizer so that it doesn't push the shoulder back as far or neck size only.
Wayspr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 08:25 PM
  #6  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Default

I made sure every primer was flush & flat. It's easy to do when loading primers with the Lyman 310 tool. I don't think I'm oversizing, but I *will* recheck my sizing procedure.
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 12:45 PM
  #7  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Default

Originally Posted by Ridge Runner View Post
put a piece of scotch tape on the boltface and see if a round will chamber fully, if it will, expand a whelen case to 375 and resize it a lil at a time till it will chamber and see how much headspace ya got, if its excessive contact ruger.
RR
BTW, will not my fired cases show how much I have?
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 03:32 PM
  #8  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Posts: 23
Default

BTT

>>BTW, will not my fired cases show how much I have?<<
Cinaed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 11:35 AM
  #9  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 104
Default

Have you pulled the bolt apart and cleaned it? You could have dried grease or metal shavings bouncing around inside the bolt causing the sporadic firing. Would be strange that it only happens on Rem primers though, but I've seen stranger things happen.
hoghunting is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 07:13 PM
  #10  
Boone & Crockett
 
bigbulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Default

Just do what RR told you to do and quit second guessing.

Put a piece of tape (scotch or masking) on the bolt face (I put it on the case head of a unfired cartridge... either will accomplish the same thing). If the bolt is hard to close then you don't have a headspace problem.

This is a cheap and quick way to use a factory cartridge as a no-go gauge.
bigbulls is offline  
Reply With Quote

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service