Nomercy

Ok, Drilling, he said FRONTAL AREA, not diameter!!!! Frontal area---assuming we're talking wadcutter bullets with perfectly blunt noses, and not the spitzers typical to the .270:

Area of a circle (the end of the cylindrical bullet--i.e. frontal area of the bullet)=PI*R^2, so for a .270win that's (.277"/2)^2*3.141592654, which equals 0.060 square inches For a .45-70 using a .458" slug, the frontal area is (.458/2)^2*3.141592654, which equals 0.165 square inchest of bullet face. By my calculations, that's 2.73 times the facia area of the .270's bullet.

Of course, that can cut both ways, yes, it effects a much greater area of tissue and gives a bigger "smack" upon impact, and the fact that it uses an extremely blunt bullet compared to the .270's spitzers, the "smack" will be even greater, but then again, say I've got 1000ft.lbs. of energy behind either bullet, the force per square inch is going to be only about 1/3 in the .45-70 than in the .270...which isn't necessarily an unfair analysis, since many of the .270 and .45-70 factory loadings available are fairly similarly powered in muzzle energy.

But then again, the .450 and .45-70 have about 2.5x the bullet MASS as well, so when it's big face runs into something, it'd really like to keep on going...

I've hunted elk with a .450 (and also a .45-70 among half a dozen other cartridges), it's certainly a good choice. It is a heavy bullet, so you've got to practice a lot to really get to "know the rainbow", a .270 that's dead on at 100yrds might be 1" high at 50yrds and 2" low at 200yrds, but a .450M dead on at 100 might be 4" high at 50 and 10" low at 200, and somewhere between there for ranges between... You don't take a heavy bullet straight walled cartridge afield without knowing where it hits at different ranges, not just looking at a chart, but actually shooting and seeing where your gun prints for given ranges you might take a shot at.

etw

Deafening! I used my .450 last year and did bag a buck. Shot it thru the heart (not its frontal area) at about 10 feet. The buck went about 30 yards. This was the very first time I shot the gun without ear protection, wow, ears were ringing for hours. Mine is the guide gun, short barrel-ported. Looks neat, handles great, kicks like a mule, layed that deer out, it is deafening. I love it.

DM

No argument from me on your math, i'll refer you to my LAST post on my math abilities!! :&gt)

BUT, your assumeing that the 270 bullet won't expand, and it WILL in a deer. On the other hand, unless the 45 cal also expands (and it probable won't expand much in a deer) The rules change.

The gun writer that puts it on paper to match MY personal hunting experences best is John Wooters!!! He said what i also think!! What determines how well a bullet kills an animial, is HOW FAST IT EXPANDS inside the animial, BUT, the bullet ALSO HAS TO penetrate to the vitals!!!! (and for me to be happy, exit the animial)

"Ok", now i'm in WAAAY over my head, and you guys are too smart for me!! :&gt))

Drilling Man

Nomercy

I'm not really certain why everyone always assumes that these big bullets don't expand, it's basically only because people choose harder bullets when they've got a bigger starting diameter. I typically use a medium-hard cast flat point bullet in .45-70, believe me, the bullets expand quite a bit...however, 45cal is big enough you don't need them to expand much to do a lot of damage to a deer--I've recovered a jacketed HP that expanded to nearly an inch in diameter in a deer.

I guess I'm saying that their expansion is a function of their design, not of their caliber.

max the dog

It's your arithmatic that's wrong. I said frontal area not the diameter. Duh!!

The frontal area of a .450 is .317925
The frontal area of a .270 is .114453

It's not exactly 3 times but pretty darn close.

max the dog

Let's get back to the original question, yes the .450 is great on the big animals.

It kills by putting a lot of lead in the animal by burning a lot of powder. A little bullet like the .270 also kills but uses speed to do the same. The problem is all that speed isn't going to do a darn bit of good if it; 1) is put on a fragile bullet that strikes a thick bone causing it to stop right there. 2) doesn't expand properly and keeps on going without doing much damage to the animals organs. That little .270 needs to expand to do any real damage because only by expanding is it going to deposit it's energy on the animal. The .450 hits the animal pre-expanded. It's also got a lot of weight behind it to keep it going deep into the vital organs. On top of all that it's going to expand allowing it to cause more damage.

Ignore the energy chart, it's all paper. When lead hits meat I'll rate the .450 as just as deadly as any .270, 30-06, .308, 7mm, or 300 mag.

DANTHEHUNTER

My 45/70 is a killing machine . With buffalo bore or garrett rounds you can take any animal on this planet. I dont know about all the math going on here but I do know what I have seen in the field and it would amaze most hunters the affectiveness of its killing power.It has terminal power