RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I have no doubt that he has some knowledge of rifles. But when you cannot discern something that is a fact like 4+4=8 and something that is an opinion it hurts you as a credible source of information. He may be able to tear a rifle apart and reassemble it blindfolded but he has made some comments in this thread and others that are just factually wrong. Comments like Wal-Mart guns are substandard models compared to the exact same model sold in a gun shop. A Tikka is no better than a Rem 710. Etc, Etc,Etc! If he is indeed ALL KNOWING as he seems to think in the area of rifles then he is being intentially dishonest when he says such things which is even worse than just being wrong or ignorant There are a lot of grey areas in the world of guns ripe for opinions but he has said many things that are so off base they go beyond opinion into either absense of knowledge or intential misinformation. Only he can say which. Either way we need to be careful. There are people who read these forums looking for information. We should all be careful to state only what we KNOW and to distinguish our opinion from generally known facts.

Also, although I have allowed myself to be dragged down to this guys person insult level (my fault, I should be a bigger person and I apologize to the innocent bystanders) I invite you to look back and see who it is that ALWAYS turns the thread negative first and starts hurling smarmy condecending person attacks. It is always him and simply saying, "Oh I admit I'm a little egotistical" is no excuse for it. He is not a nice person.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

A year and a half ago I purchased a Tikka T3 is .243 caliber.I put 5 different boxes of Premium ammunition through it,at different bullet styles and grain weights. The best group I could get out of it was an inch and a half with Remington Scirrocco's,I sold the gun.It should have been a tack driver it wasn't.
Maybe I got a lemon.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Hey Todd, I read all thru those posts and I never saw him being "dishonest". Thats just me.

His idea of mass volumn is right on target. My company does it. All do it. Your 20 guns you mention really doesn't put a dent in teh statistics. Well I am not here to teach you statistics and yields and deviations. I am saying the man did not lie, he has an opinion like yours. I believe the Tikka is a step up from the 710, but I don't like them. I would spend the extra money on a gun I feel is better quality. Has more of the things I am looking for. Now you don't agree, but it doesn't make me a liar.

His concept of Walmart and all that is pretty well a proven business case. And it boils down to your QA department. If you are like my previous company that did things pretty stupid and the QA department is under the same VP as the manufacturing, and your bonus is tied to yields, then he is absolutely correct.

Read thru thier Quarterly statement just ending last month. Its on the SEC website. You will get a feel for how they care for quality, and thier relationship with Walmart. They won't mention them by name but will go far as referring to a company that sells some of the most firearms in america, and thier biggest customer. Read thru it and get a feel for the relationship. I have been ingrained in company/manufacturing/engineering world for 10 years. What the man says makes perfect sense.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

A Remington Model 700 ADL, Weatherby Vanguard, Savage 110, etc, etc at Wal-mart is exactly the same gun as one sold in any gun store in America. To say otherwise is just urban myth. Now if you want to blame large chain stores like Wal-Mart for the existence of guns like the 710 remington then you can make a round about case for it but factories don't make one grade of Vanguard, Model 700, M77 Mark II for Wal-Mart and another grade for gun stores. Time for this Urban legend to die and someone as knowledgable as Oldelkhunter should know better.

Of course not because you just clearly stated this as YOUR OPINION and not a statement of fact.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Todd, I take it you don't work in a high volumn manufacturing enviroment or with anything to do with quality assurance. Just curious, what do you do to put dinner on the table.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Medical/Surgical RN Supervisor.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Well in addition to the Tikka is a throwaway gun comment the man tried to tell me which guns I do and do not own.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

So your a pretty smart feller. Listen, I am not saying that Walmart sells inferior guns. I am saying I have seen many times in a high volumn manufacturing enviroment, that contracts where they are the main customer and you have to get out a certain number of products before the end of the quarter, that getting them out the door is the first priority. And every time, quality suffers. Here's where I notice Japanese companies do well. Their quality department usually catches most of the problems, and won't let them pass, where alot of the American companies say, get it out the door, meet the quarter, and fix it later. Its an unfortunate part of business.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I understand what you are saying. But if a company lets quality suffer because they have bitten off more than they can chew volume wise then I blame them not the client who orders the product. Bottem line it's Remington, Ruger, Savages name on the gun not Wal-marts and their reputation that suffers if it's a POS.

I realize that companies have come out with economy model product lines that certainly sell well to large chains like Wal-Mart. The oft mentioned Rem 710 and Leupolds Rifleman scopes come to mind, but keep in mind if there wasn't a market for these products then they wouldn't make them and stores like Wal-Mart wouldn't sell them. As long as thats the case I don't blame the companies. No one is obligated to buy them and it's no secret that they are a lower budget econo model compared to these companies regular line up. Ultimately these products will live or die based on consumer acceptance or rejection of them.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I own a Tikka 7mag WTH deluxe and it shoots great. It's kind of like a cheap Sako. A cheap Sako is better than most. the end, regards, Rick.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Todd,
I agree you and old elk don't seem to have hit it off. However, if you give the man a chance, without putting him on the defensive, he's a really nice, helpful guy. The Tikka rifles are great for some, not so great for others. I seen the pictures of Tikkas that blew up. I have enough caution and respect, for and with my firearms, that for the sake of a couple of hundred bucks, i'll err on the side of safety. If I wanted a Mark V Weatherby, I'm not buying a Vanguard, If I want a Remington, I'm not buying a 710, and if I want a Sako, I won't buy a Tikka. I think you have seriously misjudged old elk. He's super knowledgeable, very helpful and he's opinionated, but I think he's opinion was bought with a great deal of experience.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I look forward to seeing this side of him. All he has done with me so far is the verbal equivalent of pooping in your hand and throwing it at someone like a drunk monkey at a traveling circus.

Well actually Sako had just as many or more barrels explode during that episode. Sako's and Tikka's barrels are made in the same factory. The blow ups were due to a bad batch of Stainless steel barrels that affected both stainless steel Tikka's and Sako's equally. The problem was only with stainless steel barrel's and has know supposedly been resolved. The extra couple of hundred bucks would not have made you any safer in this particular case.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I don't own any new Sakos either. Listen, Todd, if you like your Tikka, that's all that matters.Certainly not my opinion. Remember the old saying about opinions. Hey, if that Tikka fits you, you're accurate shooting it, and you're comfortable with it, and have confidence in it, then that's all that matters, and in that circumstance, it's a great rifle. Peace brother.
P.S. Roll Tide!

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

There sure seems to be a lot of tikka hatered going around. They are just a rifle, no better or worse than that. I've been really impressed with mine so far but that can be said of several of my rifles from remington, browning, marlin, and tikka. Heck I even had a savage that shot really good. I can see why people get offended when somebody badmouths their favorite rifle, anyone would about any brand. Six pages of banter over the usefullness of a rifle is pretty silly.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Not silly at all. We should be happy that people are replying and talking. I mean you go to some webpages and there's a whole 5 people in there with 10 posts total.

I am just mad that the continential and whitetails are gone. I am shocked that Tikka fans are not fuming all over the country. No matter what the accuracy.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

They were nicer and if you can find a used one in good condition they are well worth the money. But I'll still take a T-3 over the standard stuff Remington, Ruger and Winchester are pumping out these days.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Maybe the best bet is to find a used Sako (if you can find any) and buy it instead of a Tikka. The pre-Berretta manufactured Sakos are good guns (L591/L691). I'm sure the Berretta manufactured Sakos are better than anything you can get in the USA.

IMHO after looking at the Tikka ; too much plastic in critical areas like the magazine and bolt shroud in the Tikka. I don't think even Savage uses that much plastic. I've shot my Sako for ten years and the only regret I have is that I didn't buy two back then.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

FYI: All Sako and Tikka rifles are manufactured in the same factory in Finland. BerettaUSA is mearly the U.S. importer and distributor of both brand rifles. BerettaUSA does not, and has not ever had any part in the actual manufacturing of Sako and Tikka brand rifles.

I think it's funny how literally 100's of thousands of law enforcement officers and civilians alike rely of polymer framed semi-automatic handguns for the defense of their lives, yet the same polymer used on a bolt action rifle used almost exclusively for hunting non-dangerous game is a major turnoff and quality issue. What's more is that the frame of a polymer handgun is a high stress item, subjected to the repeated forces of recoil and slide cycling, while the magazine and bolt shroud of a Tikka rifle is placed under almost not stress at all. Oh, and just for s***s and giggles, I removed the bolt shroud of my T-3, simulating a complete breakage, and the rifle still functioned perfectly in its absense. Granted, extra care would have to be excercised to prevent water and dirt from entering the bolt and striker mechanism, but the bolt shroud in the T-3 is only a dust cover, not a load bearing item as on many other bolt-action guns (like its big sister, the Sako 75).

As far as the magazine goes, it seems to be made of the same ultra-tough polymer that handgun frames are made of. It is rigid, reliable, functions perfectly, and most importantly, it's virtually corrosion proof (except for the spring), and is ultra lightweight.

Mike

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

How true. Steyr has been using that polymer in their rifles for 50 years or so and I have never heard of a failure of any kind on their fine rotory magazines. When deer hunting, I carry a spare with 5 extra rounds just in case one of those nasty quail eating Bobcats happens by.

Mike
[/quote]

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

well said driftrider, I have a couple of glocks and as far as I'm concerned they are very dependable. I have bought 3 t-3's in the last 2 years and are very happy with them. One of which I brought to alaska last year on hunt where I slept for a week with bear activity everywhere, so yes I'm confident the t-3's are tough enough. After handling these tikka's I have a hard time looking to anything else short of a sako.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I just bought a Sako M995 30/06 that was used. I could have bought a Tikka T3 for the same price. My Sako has what looks to be a fiberglass stock in a light color. I am not sure if I made the right choice, as the Sako has a 24" barrel and seems kind of heavy. Does anyone know anything about the Sako M995? I can't find anything on the internet about it.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Ha, yea that is sort of ironic isn't it. I love the people who blast Tikkas for the supposed potential fragility of it's two polymer parts and then turn around and buy a rifle with a stock made completely out of synthetic material. And why do they like the synthetic stock? Cause it's so much more durable and weather resistent than wood. WTF? LOL! :D

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Its not just that. Its just they had a superior produce product before. Guys this is our hobby. We just don't take it as far as it needs to be. We take it over the top. If this was the first product Tikka put out, I would say, its priced about right and an ok bargain for some who it appeals too. But when you step down in products, its kinda hard.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

That's true, but you have to look at it based on market share. The Tikka rifles are meant to be high value/low cost rifles, and they are already at a disadvantage because of import tarriffs and such as it is, yet they are competing with rifles like the Savage, Winchester Super Shadow, Remington ADL/SPS, Ruger M77 MkII and the Weatherby Vanguard (also imported). In order to compete in that price class, and still produce a rifle of comparable or superior quality at a price that is comparable to the U.S. made brands, they had to cut costs without sacrificing quality. Polymer magazines and bolt shrouds and using one action length with different bolt stops are just two steps smart steps that keep costs down but quality and function up. Like I said, judged objectively and given the proven toughness of polymers today, it could easily be said that the durability, corrosion resistance and light weight of a plastic magazine outweighs the simple fact that it is plastic. Unfortunately, since Tikka isn't playing on a level field, if they were to use the more expensive materials and processes to make all metal parts, not only would the T3 "Lite" not be so light (less than 6.5lbs w/o scope), but it would cost $700-800 instead of $450-600.

Mike

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

driftrider, good posts. My compliments to you.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

I would agree. Drift. You would make a good lawyer. I would hire you but then you would have fool for a client. Or something like that.

Tom

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

It's funny that my mom has told me the same thing on more than one occasion. Let's just say my relationship with my folks during my teenage years was a bit...rockier than normal. It doesn't make mom and dad any happier when you argue with them...and win! ;)

I actually considered law school as a career option, but then I realized that I have no business whatsoever in the legal profession because my conscience and sense of personal integrity would prevent me from functioning sucessfully in our legal system as it exists today.

Mike

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

With all that said, I won't apologize for personal preferences. I like wood and metal in my rifles. I would love to have one of the old Tikka Whitetail models instead of the T-3. I would probably opt for the Weatherby Vanguard sub-MOA over the Tikka. Or buy another Sako (a real one).

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

i have a tikka t3 lite in 25-06 and can cover a 100 yard 5 shot group with a dime. it is without a doubt the most accurate gun i own!!!

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Since the Tikka haters seem to have left us I will respond to your post on their behalf.

Well first only a 2000 dollar custom gun is really a real gun so what you have can't be any good. Just by virtue of the fact that you own and like a rifle that costs less than 1000 dollars means you are illiterate white trash like me and spend all your free time trying to pick up women in Wal-Mart parking lots. The groups you think are so tight at 100 yards are actually an optical illusion caused from prolonged exposure to a gun with plastic parts on it. No cheap gun can really shoot that good. Any deer you shoot with this rifle will not really die but only pretend to be dead as it is not a real gun. Of course hang glider hunting in 20 below zero weather is out of the question with a Tikka because the plastic on it will explode and kill you in those conditions.

What you should do is go buy a 1200 dollar rifle and then immediately send it to a gunsmith so he can completely rework everything on it. Custom barrel, custom trigger, glass bed the action, free float the barrel, etc, etc, etc. Then when you get it back it will shoot a 5 shoot group at 100 yards that you can cover with a dime. BUT NOW that group will no longer be an optical illusion because you are using a real gun.

I hope I pretty much covered all the basics there since the Tikka haters weren't here to do it themselves. I'm sure they could have explained it much better than me but I think I summed it up pretty well.

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

You like this post don't ya Todd? Everybody pretty well said thier opinions, didn't know you wanted more replys? Really eating you up that he is not paying you attention.:D

RE: Tikka Rifles
 

Oh come on. Credit where credit is due. You know that last post was funny.