NVMIKE

Big bulls - Both. W/ deer(and the 300winmag) its always sideways, my wife's three yrs ago was faceing us and went backwards, he did TRY to get up, but couldnt. As far as elk go..I've only seen two cows actually KNOCKED sideways, the others (4 w/ the 300)collapsed like your saying, but the collapsers were also all quite a bit farther. Just for fun take a 243 or something similar deer hunting next year. then follow up the next year w/ a 338 or bigger. then tell me its ALL hydrostatic shock. I read an article about "DEAD IN THERE TRACKS" shots, you know, dead before they hit the ground. It was done by two African vets who were culling waterbuffalo herds. Long storey short... shot thousands, two and only two calibers(one big one medium), same loads throughout , autopsied all animals. they came to the conclusion that the ditt's (dead in their tracks) were caused by hitting the animal when its blood preasure was at its natural peak, causing the blood vessels to burst, thus causeing brain hemorraging as all ditt animals had brain hemmoraging. I think they're right, but I was talking about knocking them down, not instant kills.

ELKINMTCWB

Bigbulls

As a kid we where very DUMB. my buds dad was a cop used his bulet resistant vest to test how bad the hit was. After sevral shots at the vest with no one in it chris put it on[here is dumb part] My bud mike shot him with the vest, It flatened his but like a rock. He could not take 2 shots it hurt him to bad so we swaped geting shot.Flat footed there was not one of us that could take the hit and stay standing.I can tell you it brused me very very bad.

Just a note we where very lucky if a round would have hit the same spot twice it would have killed whom was whearing it.

The gun was a 357 with 38 rounds we where 16 to 18 years old.

The story gets even worse.I told them my rifle would shoot right though the vest they wanted to bet me. I allmost hade to beat the crap out of chris to get him not to wear the vest 1st try. Thank GOD he did not where it the 3006 blowed a hole so big though it you could stick your fist though it.

This was not a good deal and I should hear a lot of crap over it :{

Briman

I don't care what otherworldly physics you subscribe to, but a gun hitting a deer is going to hit it any harder than the recoil hits your shoulder. It doesn't knock them back, sideways or whatever. True, all the deer I've seen go down gone over sideways, but its because their legs buckled and they fell over, not because they were hit by a Buick.

As far as bulletr proof vests go, I could easily push you over if you stood flattfotted and pushed you well above your center of gravity- try it sometime. stand flatfooted and have a wife or girlfriend shove you in the chest- pretty much guarantee you won't stay standing unless you move a foot back to catch your balance.

Its all simple physics people.

ELKINMTCWB

I fist fought a lot in shcool I know the deal on geting pushed.You will never get it till you try it.It was way diffrant than any blind sided punch kinda like geting hit with a ball bat.

I allso beleave if you do not have the rifle planted to your sholder good it allso has knocked many people down. It has to do with the momentum from the rifle moving and hiting you. try holding the gun in front of you them pull the trigger I bet it kicks the crap right out of you.

Briman

I got blindsided once getting hit in the head with a pipe once- it didn't knock me out, but it certainly dropped me


Yup, it certainly does, don't ask me how I know that also If someone were to put the butt of a shotgun an inch away from your chest and pull the trigger, my bet is that you won't be standing afterward either.

Slamfire

I'm of the opinion that moderate velocity is more apt to kill quickly than stuff over 3100 fps. The bullet gets inside before it expands. I had to learn that the hard way, when I was young I read all that high speed hydraulic shock stuff Roy Weatherby was puttin' out and believed it.
The .264 Winchester "Westerner" came out the year I graduated from high school, and I just had to have one. I had to sell my '48 Merc convertable to get one. Drivin' around in that ol' pickup didn't exactly endear me with the ladies, but I digress.
A cousin's husband took me under his wing and taught me handloadin'. I burnt that barrel up before huntin' season rolled around, and I bought it only 2 months early. Picked up an 1894 Swede from one of the mail order catalogs and started killin' deer.
Since then I've shot mostly 6.5s of various descriptions and am usin' a .260 now. It is as good as any of the middle sized ones. And I've shot almost all the way through a cow elk lengthwise with the 6.5-.257 with a 140 grain bullet, so I'm not lackin' penetration.
My cousin's hunband and I built a ballistic pendilum and I discovered I could move it further with one finger than any gun we tested, but couldn't hit it hard enough to penetrate the inner tube stretched over the opening in the end of the pipe.
I believe velocitiy has everything to do with penetration of the surface of a game animal, and sectional density controls how deep the bullet goes.
Too much velocity causes bullet failure, which is why we're gettin all the super premium bullets these days. My .260 does just fine with the simple old cup type bullets like the Hornady Inter Lockeds.

James B

Slamfire. You are correct IMO. I have shot a lot of deer with all calibers. Including the 7MM Mag and 300 Win Mag and yes a couple with a 416 Rem Mag. As in my other post on drop them in their tracke, The 308 and 6.5x55 have knocked more deer down in thier tracks that anything else. Nothing else is even close. Both are moderate velocity rounds and both were useing heavy for caliber bullet weights. 140 for the 6.5 and 190 for the 308. I have shot a few deer at less that 50 yards with my 300 win mag. It sure didn't knock them off their feet. Nor did the 308 or 6.5. The secret or lack of with the 308 and 6.5 is that I shot them better than most other rifles I owned. Excess velocity without very high sectional density will cause bullet failure just about any time. Thats what makes very small very fast bullets perform with a big lack of consistancy.

Mykey

DITTO!

whiskeysnoot

A 6500 lb. Ford Super Duty travelling @ 95 f.p.s. has AWESOME knockdown power.

Slamfire

Yeah but the bullet deforms too much to continue drivin'.