Scope problem??
 

I had a problem with my son's .270 that I think may be scope related and would like some opinions.

Took the rifle to the range, shooting decent. 20 rounds 2-3" group.

Went back to the range a week later. Same ammo. All over the paper.

One week later, it's back to shooting decent.

His first shot at a deer, bullet hits a rock under the deer (about 20" low). No way to start a deer hunting career.

His second shot (at another deer) shot under it again. Losing even more confidence...

Immediately set up a target and fired 2 shots. They were touching, , dead on left to right but about 18-20" low. Third and fourth shots, dead on.

Mounts are tight, everything looks OK. Never had a scope failure so I don't know what the symptoms are.

Did I bust a reticle loose or something?

Oh yeah, for his third shot, he used my rifle. First deer, 50 yds, lung shot, deer only took 10 steps. Confidence in himself restored. Confidence in his rifle destroyed.

RE: Scope problem??
 

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RE: Scope problem??
 

gorse is probably right, but here's a zinger to throw in the mix. What if it could possibly be a flinch or something that he has developed with HIS gun, but feels better shooting yours. I have seen before, one guy shoots incredible groups with a gun, and the next guy cant hit squat with it. Or maybe he got "deer" fever on the first 2 and settled down after that. Just trying to add some other equations to the mix.

RE: Scope problem??
 

The flinch is also what I thought at first but when I shot it (I've been shooting that rifle for over 25 yrs.) and got the same results, two shots in a row from a bench, that kind of blew that theory.

I broke him in on this rifle with a Sims pad and Remington reduced recoil cartridges and he shoots it like a .22. Never saw him flinch or pull one.

RE: Scope problem??
 

I would agree with mossy33oak. I would bet it is a shooter input problem of some sort.

RE: Scope problem??
 

Sorry, the boy was sitting across my knees and resting the foreend of the rifle on the window of the blind. An 18-20" drop at 50 yds or less is a pretty drastic pull. Without doing the math, I'm guessing that he would have to move the butt of the rifle up about 1-2" and I would have noticed that on the second shot. As a matter of fact, I was looking for that. Sitting at the bench 30 minutes later, rifle resting on bags, two shots low, the next shot dead on. I'm not thinking that it was the shooter.

RE: Scope problem??
 

I would suggest you both go shoot the hell out of it at the range and see what it does. With it returning to zero all the time I would not think it was the scope but I am not an expert. Whenever I was a marksmanship instructor in the Marine Corps I would have guys shoot great all day one day and the next day not hit anything at all, it was never the rifle, always the shooter. 99% of the people I see go through the course and shoot poorly said it was the rifle but I would bet 98.9% of those were shooter error. There could have been a dozen other factors contributing to a miss with a rifle propped on a widow and him sitting on your knee also. Handgrip, trigger pull, muscle control, breath control, support (even if it was sitting on a window ledge), natural point of aim, eye reliefe, sight alignment sight picture just to name a few, try putting it in a vise, that is the only way to realy tell if the mount is steady. I know that I used to have a bipod on my 22-250 and it would shoot different freehanded than it would on bipods. A good day at the range with both of you shooting the rifle a lot should work out if it is the scope or not, then if it is I would trash it and buy a new one unless it is warranteed. I am not trying to insult your shooting ability or anything, just trying to maybe give some help.

RE: Scope problem??
 

Not to go on telling stories but I once had a tasco that the reticles would spin in it as I would shoot. They would start in a t then end up in an x. It always shot true though. What kind of scope is on the gun by the way?

Also, has the rifle been shot alot? Broke in so to speak? What brand? I had a 22 mag one time that shot like crap until I had about 200 rnds through it, now it is a tack driver.

RE: Scope problem??
 

I understand where you are coming from. The rifle is a 700 Remington ADL that has been on the mark every time that I have taken it out since 1974 or 1975. The scope is a Universal Brand 3x9 made in Hialeah,FL that I bought when I bought the rifle. He has fired at least 5 boxes of shells through it this year without a problem. He's really developed into a good shooter. He focuses on his grip, breathing, and squeeze after he makes sure that he has a good sight picture. Benchrest, prone, and shooting off 'stix' he did well. Never shot at a live animal before that though. That's why I originally suspected a touch of 'fever' LOL. I also thought that he might have been raising up as soon as he shot to see what he shot, looking over the scope. I have seen that occasionally when teaching my neices, nephews, and daughter to shoot. Like I said, I immediately took it to our bench, supported it well, and I shot two shots about the same distance low and then it trued up. My biggest inconsistencies are usually in the 1-2" range on my worst day and they are always horizontal. The one day at the range that the rifle started shooting 6" leftI and then 6" right, 6" low and then 6" high really got me worried. That's why I went back the following week because I didn't want anything to ruin his first real hunt. It was grouping within a couple of inches that day. I suppose it's possible that it's shooter error but from my position (less than a foot away from the bolt on both of his shots) I didn't see anything that would indicate that.

RE: Scope problem??
 

Could be ammo but I dont know for sure, may have been a bad batch. I would still vise it and shoot it (couple boxes) before I bought a new scope unless you just realy wanted a new scope which I would completely understand ;) . I am currently trying to re-top all my rifles with Leupolds... I get in a buying frenzy sometimes when I mess with my guns :D