duramaxlt

i agree with Ridge Runner to some degree but i also believe that too many people believe that if the rifle can do it they can and its just not so.it takes alot of hours practicing to get comfortable with any shots in the field beyond say 300 yards.also how many people hunt off of a shoting bench.

Judson

It sounds like you have a good rifle but I think you should be able to beat the 3300 with a 175. Since you have tried the 25 and H100 I would think that you should try still slower powders. The customer who had the 7 Ultra with the 26" barrel and 175 grain bullets is on the road right now but he usually calls and checks in or stops at the shop when he gets in. If you would like I will find out what his load was it could well of been 870 but I can not remember. Your velosity with the 140 sounds in the ball park depending on temp. You may find it rather intresting to shoot through your chronograph and see the difference in velosity between lets say 90 degrees and 18 degrees. Some loads will be as much as 150 fps different depending on the cartridge.

Judson

Did I hear 7mm STW? Well that is a cartridge which I am rather fond of and I have built many of them. That H1000 seems to be one of the best powders for it and most of the rifles I have seen or built chambered for it work out best for accuracy/ velosity right around that 85 to 86 grain load. It also seem to be rather mild on recoil for what it is but that is probably just my perseption. However it is mild enough so that most experianced can put in enough time with it to shoot well.

Judson

I should probably not flog a dead horse and feel free to tell me so!!! But being the way I am one more lash can not hurt. There is a guy who said I was full of defication for saying that I felt that a hunter should not shoot over 300 yards at deer. That is fine, it is his opinion he said that he is compitant at 600 yards with his Warbird. In the reloading forum he states he has only fired 180 rounds from this rifle in five years. How well can you know a rifle in 180 rounds in five years, and how good at 600 yards can you get with that rifle with that few shots? Sorry for being a snot but had to ask your opinion.

Slamfire

I am thrilled and delighted to be able to sit at the feet of so many members of the fraternity of folks capable of shooting at long renges, and able to afford the very best equipment too. I'm one of them poor fellers who just feels compelled to get a little closer, my longest shot have been at a mere 326 long paces over rolling country.

speedgator

Just for academic purposes, this looks to be pertinent: http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm

RedAllison

Judson by the looks of the number of your posts on this topic I think you are far to late to be worried about beating any dead animals!

Ok so you built a few rifles, does that make you a great shot? Enzo Ferrari built some great cars in his early days, does that mean he could hold a candle too Michael Shumacher behind the wheel today? You sound like a typical tool and die guy that thinks just because they can dial a tool close enough to headspace something, they must be THE greatest thing behind a trigger this side of our special forces. Most builders of anything aren't the greatest at using them, thats why a movie producer has a director, why a car builder hires a driver and why the folks on U.S. Olympic Shooting Teams don't build their own guns. But I'm glad you prize yourself, no one will toot your own horn for you...

Your correct about one thing, I have shot appx 9 boxes through my Warbird since I got it in 99. But lemme tell ya something, I have spent years and years shooting dozens and dozens of rifles of many calibers at extended ranges. The faster and more accurate a caliber/gun is the easier to hit with it at longer ranges becomes. You asked about where my gun prints @ 400yds? Well with 150 Lazerheads it is +2.5" @ 100yds and -3.5" @ 400yds (the line of sight through my Swarovski is about 1 7/8" above the line of bore in case you wanted more figures to pull out of your posterior)!!! I'm sure as a builder you want your customers to believe that a gun MUST shoot 3" groups @ 500yds before it can humanely kill deer over 300yds. My 'bird shoots 1/2" groups @ 100yds with the Lazerheads but even before those came about the 130Xbullets that only shot 1.5" @ 100yds equally killed em dead over 400yds. A 10"-12" kill zone on a whitetail is much more forgiving than alot of industry types would have most believe. If they couldn't sell such bunk, they would be out of a job.

Guys who think they must fire hundreds/thousands of rounds each year through a gun to connect @ 600yds are either really lousy shots, have poor bio-mechanical memory or just have a desire to prematurely shootout barrels before its necessary. If a gun doesn't loose its zero today, next month or even next year then why is it necessary to keep shooting the gun? I only re-check my zero on my guns 1ce a year (a week before season) unless the gun takes a fall or something and with each shot I take I am "checking the zero" and learning the gun that much better. Obviously when I say I am popping whitetails over 400yds then I certainly have rocksteady rests from ladder stands and shooting houses. I simply dont even freehand shots over 50yds, a steady rest is just added insurance. If a gun is still it is still regardless of whether its on bags or a padded shooting rail and the shooter is properly supported.

Next?
RA

Judson

Well Red we agree on some things, like the off hand shooting, 50 yards is reasonable and smart! If you have a rest when shooting off hand then stretch it a bit. There is one guy around here who says he can put all the bullets from his pappies long barreled 30-30 in the red ball of a Lucky Strike pack at 300 yards off hand. Guess he is a lot better then either of us, I would really like to see that! Actually I would like to put a bit of money on that, like 100 to 1 against, how about you? It takes all types, I guess.
Now to the Next? Yep a lot of my customers do shoot better then I do, several shoot at Camp Perry each year and all put in extensive time shooting and few would shoot over 400 yards at game other then chucks. They have little doubt about hitting at greater ranges. It is not that but under hunting conditions too much can and does go wrong and a wounded or lost deer is not a consilation prize. These are people who realise that it takes time ammo and practice to get the edge necessary to achieve long range accuracy.
I will also agree with you that being able to hit a paper plate size target at what ever range is all that is needed to kill deer. Considering the rather big error you made in your time of flight figure, like about 50% I am sure you are using a range finder or ranging stakes or something. If not then you got problems, it takes tremendous amount of experiance to get good enough to judge the ranges you talk about with out some help. Target shooters know the range for the most part and snipers put in hours on the range and the field learning their rifle and range estimation. I can not begin to judge ranges well enough to shoot 600 yards with out some help, but like I said earlier, I will not shoot at game at those ranges in the first place.
One more thing #%^&@ and all that good stuff!!!! My standard 250 grain load runs 52,100 psi you beat me tradjectory wise. If I load to 64,500 You got me by 1" at 400, However even with the light load I splatter the Warbird energy wise 2971 foot pounds at 500 yards! Not bad for a Custom gun smith hack who plays with wild catsi s it?
Two more questions and I am not trying to give you a hard time now!!!! I have never really considered hunting with a rifle from a tree stand as tough as still hunting. When I was younger I never did it all I did was still hunt. Now that I am older and have R.A. I have started to use tree stands and blinds, they aint so bad. Do you do any still hunting like I said I an not picking on you just wanted to know Up here in Maine it works but is really a challange. How about where you are? Next, if you like ballistics then you might really enjoy the book Understanding Ballistics by Robert Rinker, (You woulh have got your time of flight right, sorry about that) Really tho it is a book that any avid shooter should read lots of great info for all of us.

Argue with you soon Jud

Sorry about this edit! Have you ever hunted Africa? The super mags have a real bad reputation there, the Weatherbys and all that stuff. If you do not know why I will tell you next time. Now to the point, if you enjoy hunting from stands and blinds you would enjoy some of the hunting and it is not bad price wise!!! Their stands are rather large and called high blinds. Wish I had one here!!! The P.H. will for the most part not allow a shot at over 300 other then on critters like Springbok but they are up in the kgalagadi, (yes my spelling sucks but that is correct) For the price of a guided Elk hunt you can go to S.A. and get five critters. You have to do more shooting, 9 boxes in 5 years, either you hate shooting or lack oppertunity. If you want info on Africa let me know!

stubblejumper

Practise always improves a persons shooting ability.The person that sights in his rifle then doesn't practise with it will never shoot as well as a person with the same natural talent that practises with the rifle regularly.I have a range rifle with the same,action,trigger,stock and trajectory as my hunting rifles and even though I do have to rebarrel it every four or five years,I do shoot several hundred rounds through it every year practising.

Judson

Stubblejumper, I talked to Rodney today, the guy I mentioned who had the 7 Ultra.
He will not be by the shop untill next week but he told me he was using H5010 and 50BMG in his Ultra and I think V170 he said H1000 was too fast and he had pressure showing around the velosity you mentioned with the H1000. When he gets home he will give me the loads he worked up.