mule1028

I have heard a couple of people mention impact pressure or energy is too small with the .30 cal, but in the books that I have read almost all of the military snipers use primarily the .30 cal bullet. They shoot, and kill, targets/people at up to 800-1000 yds consistantly. If the round has enough energy to drop a person dead in his tracks, and even knock them back many feet, then shouldnt it have enough energy to drop a whitetail or mule deer at close to those distances? Once again I am just asking, kind of curious if I am wrong in how I am thinking.

RedAllison

Judson how many shots have you put through a cartridge like a 300RUM, 30-378 Wby, or my Warbird? Obviously by your answer I would say NONE!

You think these calibers dont have much power @ 600yds? For your information I shoot a 150grn Lazerhead that leaves my 26" Sako at a click over 3700fps. @ 600yds it is still doing 2500fps and producing right at 2000ft pds of energy. The time of flight is in the neigborhood of 3/10ths of a second.

Now you wanna tell me that it is to weak to knock a deer arse over teakettle @ such distances? The freakin animal has the speed and energy @ 400yds that my ol 30/06 does @ 100yds. Are you gonna tell me a 30/06 wont kill a deer @ 200-300yds?

Alot of things I DONT know, but what my rifles CAN do I DO know!
RA

ps
btw she aint runnin in the 70k range. The 150s doin 3700ish are in the 66,000-67,000psi range. Its called undersized (turned) bullets and NP3 electroplating. You can get velocity without max pressures if you slick up the projectile! (ie slicker cars run faster than fatter ones with equal power.)

Nomercy

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone saying the .270 was a better long range hunting round than the .308. Maybe for Antelope or coyotes, but that's it, and that's simply because it usually has a flatter trajectory, based on the light bullets and slightly higher velocity. Run equally weighted bullets through either and the .308 is going to gain the upper hand.

I know for a fact that I have never seen anyone place with a .270win at a long range bench rest or 1000yrd match I've been to. I have seen one .270Weatherby mag take a second in a BR production rifle match.

At many matches I've been to in recent years, the winner wasn't shooting a .308win either... .300mags are gaining popularity, and I've seen quite a few 6.5mm wildcats do quite well also. The .308win is basically the standby, it ain't broke, so why fix it?

As far as inherent accuracy goes, the .308 is outstanding, the simple fact that it's a short action does a lot for it. I'd be interested to see how the new .300WSM does in the long range arena, I've got a Savage WSM action I'm seriously thinking about tuning up for next season.

gunny97

the 270 was created for long range shooting in the west and north west. But it doesnt have the energy neede to down a deer or elk at sy 500 yards that a 30 cal does. the main diference between 308 and 30 06 is the 30 06 at 600 yards picks up speed and the 308 doesnt. both bullets will drop anything you would hunt and it is just a matter of funding a bullet that does whta you want. i would suggest that first you find a bullet that your gun likes and shoots good group 1/4 to 1/2 inch suggested. then you need to train the shooter . i would start shooting at 100 and then 200 so on and dont feel that you have to be accurate all the way to 1000 yards . a lot of shooters 300 to 400 is tops. a trained shooter like myself can do 1000. if i can give you any other help email me .
remember: match bullet to gun, gun to shooter , train the shooter

PapaD

now i dont know to much about guns, but ive been reading ballistic charts like crazy, and from what ive been seeing the 7mm rem mag has the farthest shot with the least drop of the 30-06, .270, the .308, and even the 300's
and the best bullet for it was a 150ss.

stubblejumper

Which 300's?The 300ultramag and 30-378 and a few others do have a flatter trajectory than the 7mmremmag if the loads with the least bullet drop are chosen for each.

Judson

Ultras? I builf four 7mm Ultras before Remington came out with it, right after the .300 came out, 30-378 built two, big guns well lets see, two .505 Gibbs, five .416 Rigbys and I do not know how many .358 Normas, 7mm STW and other stuff. the rifle I regularly use still has 2570 foot pounds at 600 yards not that it makes any difference. That warbird is a 500 round set the barrel back gun if one can shoot well enough to notice the difference, (Iam not saying any thing about your shooting ability) The bird, like the 7mm Ultra, 30-378 will not really shine with a 26" tube, or light bullets in general. For example for the 7 Ultra to get the velosity it should get with the 140 grain bullets, not the3450 that the Remington ammo gets. You will want to run a 29 to 31 inch barrel and go to a one in eleven twist. With the one in 9 twist the 140 grain bullets are over stabilised and groups will open up. On the other hand with the 1 in 9 twist 175 grain slugs will go 3450 from the short tube and in a good rifle shoot into neat little .157 groups at 100 yards.
How maney shoot have I fired in guns like the 300 Ultras, 30-378, and such? No more then needed to work up the accuracy loads and get these guns shooting under half an inch at 100 yards. Total, maby 500 +or- a few, then again I have little use for such rifles other then from a intrest in rifles and a way to make a living, (Ilove building custom rifles) You see from my perspective if I want 5,000 foot pounds of energe then I want somthing bigger then a 7mm or a 30 cal. more liks .338, .366, .375, .416, get the point? The rifle I usually hunt with I think will shoot as flat or flatter then your Warbird, not sure on that, with a 2.35" high at 100 yards what is your drop at 400 and five hundred yards? But I do know that for energy it beats the Warbird or any 30 or .338 .358, or .375 at any range, sorry about that.
Oh yes, as for the energy figures you stated if you look at any info on the 30-06 you will see that at 100 yards it is well over 2000 foot pounds. The figure you used, 2000 foot pounds is more like a 30-30 so what I said holds true.
One question, if this long range stuff is such great hunting then why dont the record books ask for the distance instead of skull horn or antler measurements?

stubblejumper

Not without exceeding 65000psi.My own 7mmultramag has a 1 in 10" twist and pressure signs are evident at anything over 3300fps.

You don't get extra points for being closer either.

Judson

Well first off you did not mention what barrel length you have and while we are at it what is your head space set at, factory standards, which will allow a No-gauge to chamber but not a Field gauge, and what powder are you using? Remington states 3450 with a 140 with their ammo, so what is going on here. Also with the 7mm Ultra figure around 50 fps per inch but your rifle is still on the low side. If that is what you get I would think of getting a new barrel from Shillen, like a match grade and going with the 7mm Weatherby with out the free bore and get the same velosity with less recoil, less powder you know and all that is figured into recoil. You know if it is energy and knock down power you want quit with the pin blowers and get a big bore!!! Far less problems and great results!!!
You know, in a way this velosity stuff is a joke. One of my customers had a .270 load that he loved, untill he shot it through a cronograph. The book said he should be getting 3100 and he was at a paltry 2950, he was crushed. He wanted to work up a new load and all even tho every deer he had shot with the old load was a one shot kill. Sometimes we get too carried away with the velosity and in reality a few hundred feet per second is nothing. With many cartridges you will find more difference between a 90 degree day and a 18 degree day.
By the way if 3300 is showing pressure then go to a slower powder, I do not know what you are using but if 7828 dump it but you might try H1000 or somthing a bit slower it should bring up the velosity and drop pressures. I have lots of loading data that we worked on the 7mm from when we started working on it. If you want some help give me a call, 207-938-3595 glad to help out if I can 3300 is a bit slow for a 140. On the other hand if you are shooting 175 grain bullets that aint too bad. But again try a slower powder should be able to get a bit more. This could lead into the falicy of fast gun/slow gun but I will save that topic for another time.

You are right no points for getting closer which proves it is the hunt not how far that counts. Close in is hunting long range is sniping or somtething, not sure what, Deer are not Cape Buff but a Buff shot at 200 yards is not dangerous game hunting, one at 25 yards is! A deer shot at 500 yards to ME is not deer hunting, or target shooting, it would net even qualify for that as far as ten ring size. It is something tho, but not sure what.

stubblejumper

Actually my rifle has a 26" hart barrel and the chamber and headspace are at minimum specifications.I was using r-25 and h-1000 and my rifle produces about the same as the other 7mmultramags with 26" barrels that I have chronographed.It produces just under 3600fps with 140gr bullets.Your own quote was "3450fps from the short tube".Just what do you call a short tube?

If you are telling me that you are getting 3300fps with 175gr bullets out of a 7mmwby mag with a 26" barrel without exceeding the SAAMI pressure limit,either you or your chronograph is way out to lunch.