45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

what is the differance in the two? which is better? why? thanks for the help!:eek:

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

Well, I want both. 450marlin is loaded from the factory I think with pressures in the 43K PSI range cause anything caliber'd in it can handle that pressure. So its cookin.

But you got to be careful with the 45-70. Marlin models 1881 and 1873 Trapdoor springfields should only be fired with ammo in the 20KPSI range. A pre nickel steel winchester 1886 black powder era rifle should be limited to loads in the 28KPSI range. Marlin models 1895 built between 1895-1915 should have loads limited to 28KPSI. Smokeless era winchester 1886's with nickel steel barrel can stand loads from 35K to 40KPSI. Post war lever actions Marlin 1895 and brownings built from 1972 all the way to present can be be loaded fto 43500 psi. You are getting very close to 450 marlin performance at this point.

So bottom line the 45-70 was a blackpowder cartridge and converted. So in the interest of being safe, factory ammo is pretty mild unless noted like garrett and buffalo. But you can handload the 45-70 darn close to performance of 450marlin.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

thanks for all the info. so to be safe i should get a 450 marlin. what kind on recoil do they have? what would it be comparable to? thanks for all the help

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

If you were going to buy a Marlin lever, My vote would be for the 45-70. It can handle loads that match the .450, yet you can buy "dumbed-down" factory loads (300 grains at approx. 1800 fps) that wont kick hard at all, and won't ravage a whitetail quite as much as the .450.
I've only seen one factory loading for the .450 in the stores, and they shoot 350gr at around 2200. This load kicks you like a mule in my opinion, at least enough to be a safety concern in a treestand.
If needs be, you can get all sorts of beefed-up .45-70 ammo from Cor-bon, Buffalo Bore, Garrett, and some others that will easily do anything the .450 can do. Take a look at some of their stuff online, they will say what loads are appropriate (safe) in whichever gun you choose to buy.
I guess to sum it all up the .45-70 is just a lot more versatile.

PABigBore

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

PABigBore are you trying to kill me? i about fell out of my chair after i read this i was laghing so hard! ( "The scope on the .450 just ripped my face off, but I think we have enough firepower now." ) that is funny! i like that. i shure wouldnt put a scope on ether one. thanks for the lagh.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

My buddy's dad wanted a brush gun, He said he was sick of his .270 bullets getting deflected by those tiny twigs you cant see in your scope. so he went and bought this used .450... me and my buddy were in the garage when the guy came home after his first range visit with his new gun. Anyway he gets out of the truck with blood all over his face and one eye swelled almost shut, just kinda looks at us, and muttered the immortal line....

We too just about died laughing.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

IMO the 45/70 is better because I can chose if I want to use lite loads ( Rem 300 gr) and hunt chucks or deer . Or load or buy Buffalo Big Bore hot stuff for anything that walks the earth

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

The 45-70 is more versitile if you reload. If you don't load and don't plan on loading get the 450 Marlin. Put a Simmons Aetec scope on it. They have 5 inches of eye reliefe. No weatherby eyebrow with this scope. The 450 Marlin will handle any game on this planet.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

Night, kicks like a mule. No joke. If you are buying a new one, they can handle any pressure of any 45-70 ammo.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

If you load your ammo you are far better off with the 45/70. It has more case capasity and when loader to the same pressures as the 450 it blows it into the weeds!!
You can push the 250 grain Barnes Expander to 2650 and still stay in the pressure limits of the Marlin. By the way all NEW Marlins have the same pressure limits, (at least the big guns, 336 sive and up) For the most part you do not want to exceed 36,000 C.U.P. acording to the book.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

Thats good info Judson. Thanks. Do you know the pressure limits of the NEF 47-70? Word is that it will handle Marlin level loads but I have never heard for sure. Those guns are light so real heavy loads would not be pleasant. I know the recievers are chambered in 30-06 and 270. I have one in 280 that shoots real well.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

They used to say Ruger loads ,but now they backed it off to Marlin loads.
I have a H&R 45/70 and I loaded 20 rnd of Ruger loads for it to try . I shot 3 and pulled the others down. Man did it kick , if I can't kill it with Marlin loads I don't need to hunt it.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

i went to acadimy today to look at ammo but found no 450 ammo and the only ammo for the 45-70 they had was like over 400gn wow that is big. ouch! do you think that would have any problems killing a coyote? :D

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

Another consideration is the 450 is a belted case and is more dificult to reload if you intend to.

From what I've heard in the past when htis came up the 45-70 was always the best pick ( for reloaders) as it can duplicate the 450 or you can tame it down

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

think of it this way the 45-70 has been around for over 100 years... you can walk into any backwoods cross roads store and find 45-70... good luck if they've ever heard of a 450 whatever... load little 300 gr bullets for plinking, 400-425's for serious hunting, and 500's for extreme madness... I have a load that shoots a 410 gr hardcast, gas check bullet at 2100fps in the Encore... will kill near anything that walks the face of this earth... 45-70 all the way...

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

thanks for all the help! i like the 45-70. now i have another Q wich rifle? i like lever guns, but does this cal come in anything but a lever action? what are my options now?:eek:

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

You have levers, single shots and a few bolts. The Ruger #1, NEF/H&R Handi Rifle, and Thompson Center are all single shots. There was a company converting Enfields to 45-70. I think it was Gibbs if I am not mistaken. Haven't heard anything about them in a while. There are also a few Siamese Mausers which were converted to 45-70, but I haven't seen one in forever. If I had to buy a 45-70 today it would be a Marlin lever, then followed by a Ruger #1.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

thanks ya that seems to be the one i like the best marlin lever action 45-70. well i have heard of a adapter so you can shoot 45apc out of a 45-70 where do i get one of those?

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

I don't know. Never heard of one. I wouldn't want to do it anyways. Different bullet diameters so I would imagine accuracy would be dismal at best. You are looking at a .458" bullet in a 45-70 and a .452 in the ACP.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

I'm guessin the 300 gr bullet would be a varmint round for these 2?? :D:D Cannons...cannons I tell ya!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

anyone ever shot a yote with a big boar? what damage did it do? :D

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

I don't know about coyotes, but on deer it leaves a 45 caliber hole with very little bloodshot meat. Eat right up to the hole so the old saying goes.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

buddy of mine shot a doe with his 450 (350gr) just kinda punched a hole through it. he wasn;t impressed with the "devastating shock and torment" he hoped for, but i had to remind him that was a deer that dressed out at 120lbs. no time for anything to happen just in and out, and besides the deer took a half a step and fell over. i think as big as the round is and as much as it kicks and all that crap it's still a modest round that does was it's supposed to without all the hoopla and hype, i also saw the same year a deer roughly 200lbs shot with a 7stw at about 65yards. i could tie the foreleg in a knot!!! that deer didn;t go anywhere either but IMO just a good portion of the deer got tossed in the can cause of the bullet damage.

which every gun you pick you got a good one. just keep the stalks as close as you can get and you'll do go.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

NH,

I have both in the Marlin lever gun. I have shot buffalo ammo in my .45/70 and it does pack a whallop....about that of the .450.

Three years ago I whacked a coyote with the .45/70. Very littly pelt damage and he never knew what happened. I suspect part of that had to do with bullet selection. I used Barnes X. I think a couple of other posters have said that the .45/70 is easier to find ammo for...I gotta agree with that. I load for everything I have so it doesn't matter much to me, but, I just like to shop around. .45/70 ammo is not only easier to find but it is a bunch cheaper than .450.

hope this helps

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

Gentlemen, It is funny when a scope comes back and busts an eyebrow - except when its your eyebrow.
I have a guide gun in .45-70 and I won't part with it. I did take the scope off however. Not because it whacked me, but because where I hunt shots are almost always less than 100 yds. I replaced the scope with a Williams peep sight. Its quick and accurate.
I was deciding betwee these 2 cartridges too until I did some research. The cost of ammo for th 450 is high and the availability at the time was low.
Because I reload, I can get all the components and Juice this old cartridge up to a very potent round.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin?
 

the 450 marlin has more kick and more energy. i'm not sure how accurate teh 450 is but you should go with teh 45-70 government because of ammo availibility and it is provent to take all animals in the US.