So does anyone think it is possible that instead of penetrating .135" of steel at 500 yards with ball ammo, that a bullet the same weight and shape could be produced to penetrate 5" of soft tissue and expand? Oh they do, no kidding.

you tell them usmc!

I love stiring up the hornet's nest!

Bottom line is this,

Guns don't wound deer, hunters do.

There are no unethical calibers (that are legal) to hunt deer with, only unethical shot placements.

I believe what's really unethical is to not practice shooting year around and show up opening day to hunt deer.

ditto to that!!

[quote]so would you hunt deer with a bb gun? No...
would you hunt deer with a .22 short? No...
would you hunt deer with a .22 LR? No...
would you hunt deer with a .222/.223? No... (If you are ethical!)
-Why? Because it is not a deer cartridge! Therefore it should be used as it is intended as a GREAT varmint round.
would you hunt deer with a .243? Yes... (Because it is a deer cartridge tried and true!)


well said! I agree

As i read the pgs. of post replies i really wonder how people get so opinionated! A guy says you wouldn't use a bb gun or 22 s or l to harvest a deer! i would say that a bb gun is out of its element. Now we have abit of fun! I am not a young man anymore and so being i have done some odd hunting practise. such as i have harvested 7or 8 deer with a 22 shorts while squirrel hunting. I never pass up food on the table the Lord sets in front of me! I have taken them with a 410 a 22 Hornet a 222 a 22/250 & so on. The fact is if you can make a clean shot and know your rifle, shotgun, ML or bow do it!

22 shorts? Smokepole blowing smoke up you know where!

Anyway fine I am done with this conversation...

If you guys want to hunt deer with varmint cartridges thats your choice.

By the way USMC isn't the military adopting a more potent round. Obviously they have decided that the .223 isn't as good as you make it out to be.

Anyway I will say it again. The .243 is the minimum deer cartridge... And by minimum I think it is a fine deer cartridge.

I think we are all missing the point here... the .223 is definately not an ideal deer hunting cartridge, so why hunt with it!?!? You can buy a gun chambered in a suitable deer caliber for less than $200.

Newguy23,

You have made it a point to say that hunting with these calibers is unethical, and not just implying but flat out saying that hunters like me who hunt deer with 22 caliber rifles are unethical hunters. It is this, and only this, that I have a problem with.

I'm not saying that everybody should go out and buy a .223, or other .22 caliber rifle to deer hunt with, but if somebody who knows how to shoot a gun wants to hunt with a .223 who has the right to say that person is unethical?

I, and others I know that hunt with .22 caliber rifles, harvest deer every year cleanly and humainly. We have a darn good track record with these calibers. The hunters I hunt with that shoot .22 caliber rifles have not wounded any more deer than the hunters that shoot the magnums. As a matter of fact, where I hunt the .22s have a much better track record than the magnums.

Now I only say the following to make a point. I do not feel that ethics is an issue here. But you take any magnum caliber and shoot a deer through the lungs. That deer basically drowns in it's own blood, which takes a few minutes. I take a 22-250 and shoot a deer in the neck and break the neck bone. That deer darn near dies instantly. Which animal do you think suffered more?

Now before everybody bashes me for being a liberal PETA so and so, I have no problems shooting a deer through the lungs. I don't think that is unethcal. I just say this because several people have made it clear that we owe it to the game we pursue to give that animal a clean and swift death. When you break a deers neck, it doesn't get much swifter than that.

Why would a person want to hunt deer with a .224 caliber when there are so many better choices for big game? I do not see any reason for it other then eggo, it is not what we shoot somthing with that is the challange of hunting, it is getting to that point where we have that shot. I will agree that the little bitty .224s can kill cleanly but how many of the wounded deer lost to these pip squeaks would have been taken cleanly if a more inteligent choice of cartridge had been made? If deer hunting were based on how small a cartridge one used then the .22 short would be the choice for the "great" hunters we all read about. Yes .22 calibers can kill deer if all goes well, we are willing to pass any thing but a perfect shot, and the gods smile on us. You can also pound in a 12 penny nail with a screw driver but a inteligent person does not do it.

I guess Judson, cause they might have success in the gun. Just because they have success and are happy don't mean you are going to get the same results.

What does it matter if there is a dead deer on the ground? I choose to do most hunting with a bow. Doesn't make it unethical. Just means I have to know my limitations on shot placement and distance. I don't shoot 50 yards and I know shot placement is oh so important with a bow. Same as a 22-250. No different.