RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Is ego the reason there are people out there that are only bow hunters? I mean anybody can kill with a gun. Thats easy. A bow is a different story.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Good question bigcountry!!!! Bow hunters, and I am one, tho traditional, hunt for the challange of getting in range of their game with their weapon. For most of them that is 25 yards or less! I do not know if you bow hunt or not but a GOOD broad head does far more damage then many of the .22 caliber cartridges which in some states are legal for deer, up here in Maine for example, the .22 Mag is legal. For the bow hunter it is the chalange of getting in close enough and you do not see these people using field points to prove their hunting prowess. They use the right tool for the job at hand and also most bow hunters put far more time into practice then the average gun hunter. I have found that most Bow hunters, I am one, have realised that the hunt is the challange and the kill is the secondary aspect. But again they use the right tool for the job, no blunts or field points out there!!!

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Not what I have seen. Any fool could kill a deer with a .22 caliber and a partition at 25 yards. Massive hydrostatic shock with proper shot placement. All the deer I have killed with a bow have very little damage. Nice neat little cuts thru the hearts (if I am lucky with the shot placement. You hit a deer in the heart with a 22-250 and a barnes or partition, and your going to see it melt or explode. I spend 90% of my deer hunting with a bow by choice. The rifle is only there to get revenge for them staying 40 yards out all bow season from me. When Nov/Dec rolls around, I have a surprise for those guys staying just out of range.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

What you say about a bow is true but you also get a pass thru which you do not with the itty bitty guns! This means blood trail and for that matter most bow hunters are far better hunters then most gun hunters. Most people who use .22 cal. rifles do not shoot their deer at 25 yards, they count on the flat shooting .224s to extend their range far beyond that like 100 yards or more. If you want to hunt with a .224 and limit your shots to those taken by a good bow hunter, 25 yards or less and pass up the rest then a .224 will do it but you are using a poor tool for the job. Again you are right , any FOOL can kill a deer at 25 yards with a .22, however smart hunters do not!

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

bottom line is dont be shootin deer with those pea shooters leave those suped up 22's at home and let the kids use em for rabbit hunting

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

yes little grasshoper, until you learn to shoot I suggest you stay with a super ultra mag, but wait, you still had a deer get back up using one. Buwahahahahaha!

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

noo i had 2 get up using my .308 took out the heart and pice of the lungs...but when my father shot his 1300 bull it didnt take a step 250 yds through the heart

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

yea man im shooting canadian deer not those little puppy dogs u shoot down in the states there are bigger and stronger up here just like us canadians eh?

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

I think part of the problem is that deer will not eat, stomp or rip you apart if you wound them. If they did then those .22s would stay in the gun rack when deer season opened up. It is unfortunate that it is not the same here as in Africa in some respects. Over there there are a lot of people who will tell you that you can kill a lion or cape buff with a 22 calliber, however they will also point out that the chance of you being killed in the process is very high. People who hunt Africa learn very fast to use the right tool for the job or they get hurt, killed or at best loose a lot of money. (You pay for what you shoot even if it is not recovered.) They also learn that it is the hunt which is important not how small a gun you can use to kill something. Killing a deer, or for that matter any game animal is very easy, it is getting to the point where you have the shot that is and should be the challange!!

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Couldnt agree more Juddon, couldnt agree more!!!!!

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

how many hunters do you know personaly? how do you think you can speak for all hunters? why do you preach what you dont know? by the way a broad head kills by cutting its way through a deer. and a bullet kills by shock i shot a deer in the sholder with a 243 at 175yds and it blew the deers guts out the other side with a masive hole. i would say that little bullet did a lot more damage than a broad head ever could have. so your not bull****ing meon this one.;)

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

I happen to agree with judson on this point. I guess I have known 100-200 hunters. 75 were serious bow hunters (ie spend 2 or 3X as much time in the woods with a bow than a gun). The 75 seemed much more prepared for gun hunting than the only gun hunters. If they bow hunted the areas where they gun hunted, they knew much more about the land, much more about deer movement in general.

Night, don't think this is too much of a secret to have to know 1000 hunters and do a survey.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

How maney bow hunters do I know, many, my self I hunt with a Penobscot bow which I do not think you know about but it is a primitive bow dating back in design about 1500 years, far longer then that .243. For your information both bullets kill by destroying vital organs and causing massive hemerage so they are not so far different. But with a arrow with a good broad head you usually get a exit hole and a good blood trail. As for the 175 yards good shot, but not really hunting if you want to put it in the bow hunting perspective. Hitting a deer size target at 175 yards with a .243 is not much of a feat. Try the same shot at Bow range say 25 yards or less. If you had to shoot that deer at 175 yards then you need to practice your stalking skills. I think you might find hunting a bit more fun if you learned how to get close and personal, this 175 yard stuff does not even qualify on a deer size targer as accurate shooting. Killing a deer at that range with a .243 is chilsd play try primitive or if you want to use a rifle get in close it is not the kill it is the hunt that counts. A cape buff at 175 yards is not dangerous game, at 25 yards it is!!!

Oh yes, as to how many hunters do I know, well It is how I make my living, you see I build custom rifle mostly dangerous game rifles. We work from the stock blank and build the rifle to fit the customer, so I do know one or two.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Bigcountry...lol...you grew up bowhunting the same places I hunt. You know that if you see 5 deer on an all day sit you are in a hotspot here...lol. Many days of no deer is not uncommon. You LEARN quick that there is no substitute for scouting and I mean tons of it! The guys that kill the large bucks here year in and year out with the bows..well quite simply I would put them up against any hunters anywhere.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Yea, but they are all high end yups that need a back rub while shooting thier cape buffalos in a back of a truck to afford those rifles. :D:D:D

I know alot of hunters most are plumbers/machinist/ferryman/policemen type guys. None of them would dream on a custom gun you are selling. And yes a few have been to South Africa.

Don't take offense. Just giving you a hard time. Kinda:D

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Yea, but those Mingo, logan, and Wyoming county bucks you do see are well worth it. Espeically near twin falls park.:D Know firsthand. Me and a buddy are thinking of leasing some bow hunting land there next year and spending all week bowhunting it in peak rut.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

True, but those high end Yups and vustom rifles are how I get to go to Africa but I can not afford to shoot a buff yet. You know, most of the people who go to Africa are working stiffs who save up for the trip. South Africa is really a good deal and worth saving up for, when are you going to go? Once you do you will never be the same and that once in a life time trip will get you planing for the next, it is addictive. By the way I am planing trip #3 so you want a custom rifle?

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Actually funny you ask. Been considering for 5 years. A cop friend has been twice and cost him 8K for 5 animals. I think he somehow flys for free and gets the inoculations free. But have been wasting money going to Canada in the last few years. Can't really do both. But definately considering. Not really interested in cape at all. But really interested in Eland and kudu. Thats my main attraction. I think its a awesom animal. Also the warthog is pretty wild. Sable and Oryx would also be a draw for me.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

it is unethical to hunt with a small caliber not becuase of there diameter the there energy on impact. there you go.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

lol all i can say [email protected]

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

Judson, what kinda deal do your PH ask for? Which area in africa? What animals do you guys usually hunt. Thanks for any info.

RE: Wounded deer part II
 

I have hunted South Africa for plans game. You get spoiled rotten!!!! Usually your day fees run from 275 U.S. to around 375 per day and that includes everything, food, booze within reason, transportation and lodging. We stayed in chalets, indoor plumbing hot and cold and al the creature comforts. Other then the day fees you have trophy fees for what you shoot, air fair to get to SA and taxidermy. Numzaan Safaries is who we went with the first time and they were great. However you will find on some forums a guy who goes by JJ Hack who is a South African P.H. he is also a American. I have spoken to him several times and he has some great deals his web site is huntingadventures.net We are thinking of going with him in 2007 you might want to check him out.