Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
12-22-2004, 05:22 AM
#42
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ohio
Posts: 132
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
I would rather be shot in the head with a .22 than in the gut with a .308.
12-22-2004, 05:53 AM
#43
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 437
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
These threads!! I usually don't respond to threads like this, but I just got to say a few things. Top 10 reasons not to use a .204 on deer...even on the sholder!
1. .204 will be statistically be a crap shoot on the sholder, ballistics calculators show very little TKO, very little mass, very little stored energy, so selecting it for deer is showing stupidity.
2. Ethics be damned. Regulations in multiple states disallow anything in .22 cal on down, some 6mm on down. SO IT IS ILLEGAL, and I believe it Maryland too. Check with your F&G Dept.
3. I am not a big bowhunting fan and I begrudgingly support this type of hunting (in my mind it is wounding) because there is at least some stored energy in weight the arrow, and SHARP broadheads that slice cleanly. That being said, in Kansas there are a lot of arrowed deer that die a horrible death, just as there are deer that die in Kansas after being shot with a .22 and the .22 is illegal on big game in Kansas.
4. It is big Game, use a bigger bullet.
5. Deer are a shared resource. They belong to the "people" not to the "hunters". It is the height of hubris to just take a shot at a deer "to see if you can". It shows little respect for the animal you are "hunting", and little respect for the sport of "hunting" as practiced by an individual.
6. Killing animals wholesale for herd control, use a .44 mag, 30-30, .308. Don't need flat shooting in this application, just theTKO needed and all these are fine in the less than 100 yds.
7. Gun nuts like more guns and need more situations to buy more guns. If you need an all around, get an all around gun. Don't limit yourself to owning just a .204.
8. 4,000 fps velocity does not give the bullet magical properties
9. How do you find those little bullets in the dark?
10. If you go deer hunting and you are gone for a long time, you had better bring something tangible home or the wife will be very upset, the .204 will lower your odds for taking the deer and increase your odds for domestic hell. WHY WOULD YOU USE IT?
1. .204 will be statistically be a crap shoot on the sholder, ballistics calculators show very little TKO, very little mass, very little stored energy, so selecting it for deer is showing stupidity.
2. Ethics be damned. Regulations in multiple states disallow anything in .22 cal on down, some 6mm on down. SO IT IS ILLEGAL, and I believe it Maryland too. Check with your F&G Dept.
3. I am not a big bowhunting fan and I begrudgingly support this type of hunting (in my mind it is wounding) because there is at least some stored energy in weight the arrow, and SHARP broadheads that slice cleanly. That being said, in Kansas there are a lot of arrowed deer that die a horrible death, just as there are deer that die in Kansas after being shot with a .22 and the .22 is illegal on big game in Kansas.
4. It is big Game, use a bigger bullet.
5. Deer are a shared resource. They belong to the "people" not to the "hunters". It is the height of hubris to just take a shot at a deer "to see if you can". It shows little respect for the animal you are "hunting", and little respect for the sport of "hunting" as practiced by an individual.
6. Killing animals wholesale for herd control, use a .44 mag, 30-30, .308. Don't need flat shooting in this application, just theTKO needed and all these are fine in the less than 100 yds.
7. Gun nuts like more guns and need more situations to buy more guns. If you need an all around, get an all around gun. Don't limit yourself to owning just a .204.
8. 4,000 fps velocity does not give the bullet magical properties
9. How do you find those little bullets in the dark?
10. If you go deer hunting and you are gone for a long time, you had better bring something tangible home or the wife will be very upset, the .204 will lower your odds for taking the deer and increase your odds for domestic hell. WHY WOULD YOU USE IT?
12-22-2004, 06:13 AM
#44
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 571
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
jcb9901, with the deepest respect I am sorry to hear that.
There have been cases where folks have been shot in the head with .357 Mags and lived to talk about it.
The small calibers are illegal in MD, oops I broke the law once guess I am damned. The supressed 60 grain 22 deal is setup by the state to control game in populated areas and therefore is legal with proper premission. The whole communist "the deer are for the people" BS is out the window for me unless you would like to start compensating me for the damages caused by "your" deer on my property. I don't know a person that hasn't hit at least one deer with their car or truck, you think that kills the deer cleanly? Again if I had the choice between being ran over to death or being shot with a small caliber in the head, give me the head shot please. My insurance is higher because of it and the only thing my wife bitches about is her plants and garden getting eaten up, and her car getting smashed. Please READ the prior posts, I am not selecting the small calibers for regular deer hunting, it was done once as a live ballistic experiment, I use a .270 about 99.9% of the time for deer (yes I live in a rifle legal county in MD) I am not telling people to buy a small bore / high velocity round for deer hunting, I am simply answering the question asked and defending myself against persecution for being honest.
There have been cases where folks have been shot in the head with .357 Mags and lived to talk about it.
The small calibers are illegal in MD, oops I broke the law once guess I am damned. The supressed 60 grain 22 deal is setup by the state to control game in populated areas and therefore is legal with proper premission. The whole communist "the deer are for the people" BS is out the window for me unless you would like to start compensating me for the damages caused by "your" deer on my property. I don't know a person that hasn't hit at least one deer with their car or truck, you think that kills the deer cleanly? Again if I had the choice between being ran over to death or being shot with a small caliber in the head, give me the head shot please. My insurance is higher because of it and the only thing my wife bitches about is her plants and garden getting eaten up, and her car getting smashed. Please READ the prior posts, I am not selecting the small calibers for regular deer hunting, it was done once as a live ballistic experiment, I use a .270 about 99.9% of the time for deer (yes I live in a rifle legal county in MD) I am not telling people to buy a small bore / high velocity round for deer hunting, I am simply answering the question asked and defending myself against persecution for being honest.
12-22-2004, 06:21 AM
#45
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 437
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
YOU missed multiple points, that I made and are valid. And yes, deer are not yours. If you don't like the damage....MOVE. People can't kill bears just because of the damage, they have to be threatened or the bear has to be a hazard.
SO your "communist" remark is running backwards to wildlife management tenents, and conservation efforts.
We are talking here about "intentional" interaction with a deer, not some car accident. I know few people who intentionally "hunt" a deer with an automobile, and the odds are not good of getting a clean kill with that either. But to bring deer accidents into this discussion to defend a bad practice is not a wise tactic for debate.
Using a .204 for a deer is a bad practice and a bad suggestion.
SO your "communist" remark is running backwards to wildlife management tenents, and conservation efforts.
We are talking here about "intentional" interaction with a deer, not some car accident. I know few people who intentionally "hunt" a deer with an automobile, and the odds are not good of getting a clean kill with that either. But to bring deer accidents into this discussion to defend a bad practice is not a wise tactic for debate.
Using a .204 for a deer is a bad practice and a bad suggestion.
12-22-2004, 07:36 AM
#46
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 571
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
MarkIIVT I do not deny that you made multiple good points and I do not condone deer hunting with illegal calibers or suggest it. I do not "practice" killing deer with illegal calibers, just performed one test.
About moving: Do not get me wrong, I do not like this state for many reasons but I am forced to live here at least part time for now. There wasn't a population problem in this state 15 years ago, but the wildlife management tenents obviously didn't do their job, so now there is a deer density that rivals almost anywhere in the country for #1 in over population. Bears are a different species with different population densities within the state and I do not condone shooting them on site like some may, it is not wise to bring a different species into this discussion to defend your liberal views. I do agree with you that there is a cutoff where a caliber is not suited for deer, what are you displeased with? The fact that I used a small caliber once to kill a deer?
About moving: Do not get me wrong, I do not like this state for many reasons but I am forced to live here at least part time for now. There wasn't a population problem in this state 15 years ago, but the wildlife management tenents obviously didn't do their job, so now there is a deer density that rivals almost anywhere in the country for #1 in over population. Bears are a different species with different population densities within the state and I do not condone shooting them on site like some may, it is not wise to bring a different species into this discussion to defend your liberal views. I do agree with you that there is a cutoff where a caliber is not suited for deer, what are you displeased with? The fact that I used a small caliber once to kill a deer?
12-24-2004, 11:53 AM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
ORIGINAL: MarkIIVT
These threads!! I usually don't respond to threads like this, but I just got to say a few things. Top 10 reasons not to use a .204 on deer...even on the sholder!
1. .204 will be statistically be a crap shoot on the sholder, ballistics calculators show very little TKO, very little mass, very little stored energy, so selecting it for deer is showing stupidity.
26. Killing animals wholesale for herd control, use a .44 mag, 30-30, .308. Don't need flat shooting in this application, just theTKO needed and all these are fine in the less than 100 yds.
8. 4,000 fps velocity does not give the bullet magical properties
These threads!! I usually don't respond to threads like this, but I just got to say a few things. Top 10 reasons not to use a .204 on deer...even on the sholder!
1. .204 will be statistically be a crap shoot on the sholder, ballistics calculators show very little TKO, very little mass, very little stored energy, so selecting it for deer is showing stupidity.
26. Killing animals wholesale for herd control, use a .44 mag, 30-30, .308. Don't need flat shooting in this application, just theTKO needed and all these are fine in the less than 100 yds.
8. 4,000 fps velocity does not give the bullet magical properties
TKO numbers are a farse! These are just made up equasions to suit someones perspective on what a big bullet is suppose to do. Do a TKO number on a knife and tell me what you come up with. Not much of a number huh? tell me a knife wont kill.
You'd be surprised on what velocity does, it will punch a tiny 50 gr bullet through steel that a 180 gr bullet out of a 30-06 cant do. Your non-sense on bow hunting really ticks me off. Keep it up and once you ban bowhunting your rifle season will be next.
12-24-2004, 12:19 PM
#50
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
The TKO numbers are certainly no more of a Farse than your idea that velocity alone is the kill all answer. It is not. Its only a small part of the equation. The TKO is made up of bullet weight, bullet size and velocity. That is a much more firm base to eveluate killing or knock down power. If anyone uses the 204 in the sataes that I hunt, you are breaking the law and thats all there is to that. If its legal where you hunt and you don't have a better gun for deer then I quess you can go for it. I can't say strong enough ( as was said above) Wildlife was not put here for us to experiment on minumum ways to kill them. 22 centerfires 222 and bigger are allowed where I hunt. If I had my way, 25 caliber would be the minimum. However the guys using the 22 centerfires in our state are at least legal.