Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I just heard about this on another website. Y'all be careful out there!

Here's the story from MSN:

BIRCHWOOD, Wis. - A deer hunter shot and killed five people and wounded three others in northwestern Wisconsin following a dispute about a tree stand during the hunt’s opening weekend, authorities said.


The 36-year-old alleged gunman was arrested Sunday afternoon, Sawyer County sheriff’s officials said. Jake Hodgkinson, a deputy at the county jail, identified the suspect as Chai Vang but would give no additional details.

Paul Schnell, a spokesman for the St. Paul, Minn., police department, said the man was from St. Paul.

The incident began when two hunters were returning to their rural cabin on private land in Sawyer County when they saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. A confrontation and shooting followed.

Unclear who fired first
It’s not known who shot first, Zeigle said.

Both hunters were wounded and one of them radioed to the cabin a quarter mile away. Other hunters responded and were shot. About 20 shots were fired in total, but it’s unclear who shot them, he said.

The dead included a teenage boy and a woman, Zeigle said. A father and son also were among them, he said. Some of the victims were shot more than once.

All five, from the Rice Lake area, were dead when officers arrived in the area in southwestern Sawyer County, he said. Authorities found two bodies near each other and the others were scattered over 100 yards.

“It’s absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?” said Zeigle.

Zeigle said the suspect was “chasing after them and killing them,” with a SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a common hunting weapon. Wisconsin’s statewide deer gun hunting season started Saturday and lasts for nine days.

Two young people who were staying in the cabin emerged safely after the shootings.

Suspect got lost in woods
The suspect, who did not have a compass, got lost in the woods and two hunters, not knowing about the shootings, helped him find his way out, Zeigle said. When he emerged, a Department of Natural Resources officer recognized the deer license on his back, given to police by a victim, Zeigle said.

The man was out of bullets and was arrested, Zeigle said.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Thats a huge blow to us sportsman. They said he was using a SKS and (common hunting rifle). I don't know anyone that uses a SKS for deer hunting.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I agree. You can already see the direction they're heading with this when they say the SKS is a common hunting weapon. Yeah right!

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I'll admit I give most civilians in the weeds with an assualt rifle a real wide berth unless I know them personally and their reputation. Poor souls.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I firmly believe that it is counterproductive to classify rifles as "GOOD" and "BAD" but I totally agree with you about strangers with assault weapons afield. The SKS would not be my choice to hunt anything with.

Plinking or punching paper, yes.

Having one for the sake of collecting interesting arms, yes.

Humane one shot kills on game animals when there are better choices available in the same $100 price range, like a surplus bolt action Mauser, not my preference.

But the beauty of our free society is that we are free to make our own choices, at least until some murderous moron such as Chai Soua Vang screws it up for all of us.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

In the original story I read it included the statement that he did not stop firing until his 20 round clip was empty. It also stated that there had been prior clashes with the Hmong and other landowners as they dont appear to understand (or care) about the rights of a landowner and the concept of private property and trespassing. Makes you wonder about why he had that much firepower in the deer woods. Could this have been a retalitory strike.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Holy Cow! I feel like I stumbled on to the "Sportsmen for John Kerry" forum!

SKSs aren't really popular in Wisconsin for hunting, burt I do see them on occasion, and yes, Hmong use them alot because they are cheap to buy and not alot of these people are financiallyt well off.

This was a law enforcement agent that stated this. If this were to happen in california, you wouldn't have seen the actuall weapon used but would be prompted toward a table full of AKs, handguns, and probably a .50 Barret with a politician stating that the perp used an automatic assault weapon of mass death[:'(]



Once again thankyou for your second amendment bigotry. Pox on you.


Isn't interesting when the people talking to the media won't even consider the weapon an "assault weapon" but the so-called gun experts on such a site as this are quick to label it as such?
When was the last time a gun assaulted someone?


The mass murder makes me really angry and sad, but when I come back from deercamp and log on to a favorite site such as this and see such comments as Iee here, my head wants to explode.
[:@]


The attitude here doesn't sound any bit different than John Kerry and the rest of the gun banner buffoons- if you can't afford the $1000 gun that I use, you shouldn't be hunting.

[:@]

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

we need to quit using the term "assult rifle" THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
this is a term made up by the media to cast a negative light on military issue guns. i can take my sks, and do anything you can do, with any gun you have, at under 150yards. it is a fully capable, and ethical means to harvest deer

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

My friend, maybe the folks in your part of the country are pretty civilized, but more than once when out in the woods I have encountered obvious groups of gang bangers out and about toting SKSs, AKs, and other weapons that may not be fully automatic but nonetheless can send a lot of lead downrange in a hurry. Lots of natural forest land is used by gangs to cultivate marijuana, and God help you if you stumble onto one of these areas because you may well be shot at. This is one reason I don't hunt public land anymore. Being cautious of strangers with semi autos is NOT the same thing as being a proponent of banning them, which I most certainly am NOT. I AM one for staying away from idiots and obvious trouble. This isn't Second Amendment bigotry, this is good judgement.

My only experience with SKS rifles is confined to those owned by my buddies. None of these rifles groups worth a pinch of crap, even though they are interesting and fun to shoot at the range. If I was a hunter on a budget, I personally would opt for a surplus Mauser. I have several ex-military Mauser rifles, 98s and Swedes, that all shoot well enough to ethically hunt with. If you've got an SKS that you can shoot well, I can't and won't criticize you for hunting with it, but it sure wouldn't be my choice. To each his own.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

okeedokee. I am off this topic.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

The story's getting clearer now. There is such a thing as an assult rifle. An SkS is not one. It's the same idea as a ruger deerfield, or rem 7400. With a good softpoint, it will kill a deer as well as any 30-06 or .300, within it's optimum range. As for the 20 round mag, I see no need for it on a deer gun.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

All I can say is that it's a damn shame all around.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

the first article i read said it was a SKS assault rifle lol then another I read said it was a common hunting rifle LOL To me an SKS is neither, an SKS is asfar as classifications go no different then a M-1 garand they are both vintage military service rifles from around the same era the only difference is the M-1 is a quality american made rifle and the SKS is a cheap commy made rifle ( an sks in original condition is top loaded into a 10 round fixed magazine with stripper clips or by hand deffinately not an assault rifle. ROFL).

The true deffinition of an assault rifle according to a marine friend of mine: A rifle or machine gun capable of sustaining a high rate of automatic fire for a substancial period of time between magazine changes. So basically a true assault rifle is a fully automatic weapon which is fed either by belt or drum magazines. But the key word here is "Automatic" not Semi-automatic. And automatics have been banned for nearly 80 years. these quote experts in the media dont know sh!t

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Well my definition is pretty easy and has alot of common sense when it comes to assult rifles. Rifles produced to assult someone or some army. Usually produced with the intention of fighting wars with.

I know some will get on here and say, what about the modified model 70's and 700's used as sniper rifles in vietnam.

I don't know guys, its pretty clear to me.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I found a copy of the actuall police statement online, Vang did not have an SKS. The rifle he had is not even classified or considered to be any sort of or reminant of an assault rifle.........

What he had a was a Saiga Sporter 7.62x39mm, Im attaching a picture of a saiga. Saiga's are a current production rifle imported by EAA, and are intended to be a hunting rifle......

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

even according to the Brady bill which was written by liberals...... doesnt even classify an sks as an assault rifle............. Also the Saiga's were manufactured after the brady bill and donnot have any of the features which would classify a rifle as a quote assault rifle. I am highly irritated that the media said vang had an assault rifle. According to the brady bill a firearm must have atleast (3) of the following features to be classified as an assault rifle: detachable magazine, thumbhole/pistol grip, Flash supressor, bayonet lug, and/or folding/collapsable stock. Do you see 3 or even just 2 of these features on the Saiga sporter??????? A BIG FAT NO!!!!! According to us and the liberals this rifle is not an assault rifle. But I guess the media knows all.............. And the majority of americans are so dumb they'll believe anyting they see on TV or read in the news paper.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Well figured i would post to put this thread back at the top was kinda interested in hearing everyones opinion on the info I discovered.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

This doesn't bode well for our fair weather 2nd amendment friends when the rifle use in the killing was a.....
wait...
here it comes...


A HUNTING RIFLE

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

[b] Contrary to what the liberal media would have Americans believe, the SKS is no more an assault rifle than is the M1, M1A, the Remington 7400 series, or the BAR! Neither is the .45 ACP M911A1 a "semiautomatic assault pistol", nor is the Remington 1100 an "assault shotgun"!!

My understanding is that this murderous Hmong used a Saiga in 7.62X39mm, which is a Kalashnikov semiauto-only action with a sporter stock and 22" barrel. This ain't an assault rifle either!!

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

So, according to your definition, the Model 1803 Harper's Ferry .54 cal. flintlock rifle, all the CW .58 rifle-muskets, the Trapdoor Springfield, the .30/40 Krag, the 1903 Springfield, the SMLE, the 1917 Enfield, etc., would all be assault rifles. I guess military smoothbore muskets would be excluded from your definition because they are smoothbores, and not rifles??

I think your definition is somehow lacks something......

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

To add:
Remington 700 rifles have been used by the military to kill people since the vietnam war. There are alot of dead Iraqis who were sent to Allah by soldiers and marines armed with Remington 700 rifles.
To add to the list- the military also uses Remington, benelli and Mossberg shotguns for assault purposes- these are some of the most brutal small arms used by infantry in close range assaults. None of these are any different than the shotguns you can buy a Dick's sporting goods, with the exception of a few addons and different finishes.

Bigcountry- also, how would you classify an AR-10? These have never been used widely by any significant military, yet its little brother the AR-15 is the mainstay of the American soldier. Also, what are your feelings about the Mini-14- its actually been used for some military purposes in the past- probably more than the AR-10.

Winchester Model 70's? Pretty similar to the eeevil rifles of the Third Reich than killed 10's of millions of people. In its day, the model 98 was the foremost military rifle in the world, and was made for the purpose of killing people.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Briman Listen, I support people having AR's and stuff. I have no problems with these guys. But when at the range, I just roll my eyes at some of these guys. Most I see don't hunt (which wierds me out, and I realize I have to understand not everyone is like me) and pretend they are GI Joe (which also wierds me out). I realize we all have to stick together so thats as far as I go knocking them. And I only do that inside our inner circle(gunpeople). Its easy to see its a "us and them" mentality between the hardcore hunters and military enthusist, same as serious smokepole shooters and centerfires hunters, or serious archers and gun only hunters. Now outside our inner circle we have, these people are one of us and our brotheren, and I will stand right beside of. I tried the military arms thing, and it wasn't for me. Just didn't see the need of owning guns that were more of a novelty than a actual sporting arm. I had the AK's, and a mini 14, even a mod 98 sniper rifle brought back during WWII. I figured out I like preparing for the hunt. And this didn't include repeaters. So sold them all. Hey if it makes you feel better, call em what you want. But if I see a guy with a SKS or this Saiga in the woods, I can't take him seriously as a hunter. Just some guy with a poor choice of firearms. Most with pressed metal.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I know everyone has there own opinions, but look at what this is doing to everyday sportsmen. A weapon, any weapon, is just that. Personally, i have never seen any weapon jump up and say " I'm gonna kill something today" Guns dont kill people, PEOPLE kill people! Lets not argue amonst ourselves about whats an assault rifle and whats not. When we fight amonst ourselves.....it gives the anti's more ammo to use against US!! As a law enforcement officer, I deal with this type of crap every day. It really pisses me off to hear someone say 'the gun just went off by itself'.

:eek:

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

See No-Gills, some people say thats the problem. That us "gunfolks" won't be honest in classifying one as a useless novelty, thats a american right to own, and others are ligetiment sporting rifles. Therefore alot says we lose credibility with people we need. I know middle of the road people that don't hunt, and don't enjoy guns at all and don't have a problem with what I do, that feel this way. When you got some guys saying, "yes a street sweeper is a ligit sporting tool". It makes us look bad, and maybe ignorant, and just lose credibility with these people. When maybe its best to just explain, we are americans and like to drive fast cars, turn the heat up in our house to 90 degrees and have stuff that is just fun just to make sure we are still "free" and not constricted by someone else's idea of whats right or wrong.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

This is pretty much what it boils down to, as I've stated in other places, some people have the attitude that "if you can't afford the same $1000 rifle that I use, you have no business hunting."

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Not at all briman. I consider both of these guns in question to be "junk" guns. I have had them both (the AK version), and quickly disposed of them. I think I paid more for my AK than I did for my 243. There's alot of ways to practice our "sporting heritage" without a 1000 dollar rifle. I mean if its just a deer they want, I am sure beef would be cheaper than the 40 acres he bought in Minnisota. When I was a kid, I wanted the semi's and felt I needed them. But quickly figured out its not about how many deer you killed.

Briman, I have thought alot what you said. You make alot of sense, but what you won't consider is, the mentality that comes with 90% of the hunters using a SKS or the AK knockoff. We have all seen it I am sure. The mentality is what mine was when I was 12 or 14. Its usually dangerous and sometimes risky, see it, shoot it with as many shots as possible. Which I think most of us on this page would agree, is not an ideal/ethical hunters mentality that come to mind for most Americans.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Myself I prefer a good remington bolt action for hunting, But some folks out there may not be as good of a shot and a self loading rifle offers a fast follow up shot. If i needed a gun that gave me a fast follow up shot I would favor my remington 742. The saiga rifles really are no different then my 742 other then its a kalashnikov design and may not be as accurate either. the saiga isnt exactly a cheap or poor mans rifle...... they have a milled steel reciever chromed line bore and the wooden stock version has a high luster finish hardwood monte carlo sporter stock. A saiga with a hard wood stock goes for $429 and the synthetic stock version goes for $349 and a suped up version the saiga 100 goes for $459. Those prices are roughly what a decent bolt action like a remington M700 ADL or a Winchester M70 blackshadow go for. I dont think people who choose the saiga are looking for a low priced gun to fit their budget, more likely the saiga fits their taste.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

If you want more info on saiga rifles heres the website to EAA who imports them
http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/saig...es/index.shtml

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

HDW, I would agree with you almost wholeheartedly, although in my own experience if I missed the first shot, I also missed the second and third because the critter was running and I was agitated. These days I am too afraid of wounding an animal and losing it, so if I miss clean, I usually don't follow up. This is more a reflection of my confidence in my own shooting skills than the relative advantages of a given rifle action; a guy can't miss fast enpugh to put meat on the table.

I have had a 742 for years because I felt the need for a quick second shot when hunting wounded hogs in the shrubbery. My 742 is not all that accurate compared to my 700 BDL, but is plenty good enough for short range (~100 yards or less.) The idea of fumbling around with a bolt action, especially one like a Remington which trades reliable extraction for superb accuracy, has never appealed to me, and the 742 is very reliable in my experience.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

I prefer a single-shot, generally using the Ruger No. 1 in various calibers these days. Where I now hunt, one shot is about all you get anyway. Most of my big-game kills in the last 10 years or so could just as easily have been made with a muzzle-loader!

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Bigcountry- I can also agree that there are people like that out there. I've observed this behahior while sitting in a stand on the fenceline of the property I hunted on and watched as two hunters sitting in the middle of the field would rapid fire until their bolts locked back at any deer that ran past them, sometimes these hunters would get a "lucky" shot in and actually hit the deer- in the jaw or front leg, before it ran onto the property I hunted on[:@] I've seen these type of hunters on public land many of times also- I actually watched a buck through my binos walk up behind a guy sitting on a wooded hill and saw the man turn around and blast away at the deer as it ran through the thick woods away from him.

In every case, the rifle used by these 'hunters' looked to be a remington. Do I think that everyone using a remington 7400 is a slob hunter? no. But when I work at a deer rifle sightin clinic and see scores of these rifles a year, I often times feel I could almost pick out the shooters who will have the tendancy to do this.

It ain't the gun, its hte guy behind the gun.

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

im from just north of madison wisconsin and that crap was just sick, there was an incedent on one of the farms about 8 miles from town where a couple of 35 year olds beat the daylights out of a 66 year old farmer who approached them for tresspassing on his property. it makes you wonder about people these days

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

the thing that pisses me off is that none of the major news channels are even covering this the way it should be.check out mike savage talk radio show on the AM dial at night and at least he sees through the liberal media. i guess because it was just some white hunters killed by a minority it should get swept under the covers. where are the candle light vigils for these poor people. i for one will say a prayer for them and there family. savage also said there was a similar type shot in the back murdered hunter in the same area a couple years ago. i wonder if its the same a-hole!

RE: Hunters killed in WI!!
 

Your're just reading the wrong newspaper go to this website http://www.chronotype.com/ they have a new article or two every otherday on this tragedy and they tell it right, gotta love small town newspapers usually owned by conservatives also this paper is Rice lake wisconsins paper the town paper of where most of the slain were from.

This issue will never rest with me untill I hear that guy vang was killed while being transfered to another jail or gets killed in prison ala jeffrey dahmer broom handle style like someone else has stated, If we can I'd like this thread to stay alive aslong as possible in memory of our fellow brothers and sister who had fallin to the madness of one sick individual. Keep their families in your prayers untill justice is served I know they won't feel any closure untill vang hangs for what he did.

We need to let the liberal media know that they cant just sweep this away and that we will always remember this horrible tragedy and keep in the back of our minds so that in the future something like this can be prevented, let this be a lesson to everyone I sure hope none of you ever have to experience or be involved with anything like this.