Lever action rifles
 

I've never had one, but I've noticed that a lot of them are made in handgun calibers. Does this go back to an old-West sort of tradition?

RE: Lever action rifles
 

I don't think so much, as the up swing in Cowboy action Shooting has picked up.
Lever guns in handgun caliber are fun to shoot and offer more for the hunter who wan'ts a compact,light weight handy deer rifle.
The old west days of having a handgun and a rifle in the same caliber was more for the conveience of not having to carry alot of diffrent ammo.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

Not trying to stir up any trouble here but I just don't see how you could take a shot at a deer with a Lever action rifle using a pistol cartridge outside of maybe 30 yards and feel comfortable. I just bought a Model 94 and considered geting it chambered in .357 cause I have a Taurus revolver but when I hold a .357 cartridge and think of it dropping a 120+ lb. animal at any decent range doubts flood my mind.

Metro..

RE: Lever action rifles
 

The long the barrle the more FPS and Ft/lbs,take a look at your Factory ammo,lets say a 357 Rem Mag out of a pistol.
4 in Tube 180 gr Bullet
M/FPS M/Ft lbs 100 yds 100 yds
1250 625 1080/fps 465/ft lbs

Rifle 18 in Tube 180 gr bullet
M/FPS M/Ft lbs 100yds 100yds
1550 965 1210/fps 590/ft lbs
Now there a bit of diffrence between a rifle and pistol,both in velocity and Ft/lbs,not to metion the accracy you will gain with a large sight radius.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

I understand your getting more energy from the rifle barrel that is waisted on a pistol barrel, that said, someone on this board used the rule of thumb for ft/lbs. for a deer at least 1000 ft/lbs. at any given range.

Metro

RE: Lever action rifles
 

A few things here. First, I really wasn't talking about deer...yet!:D

Next, the rule of thumb for years for deer was 800ft. lbs. I think the recent move upward to 1000 ft. lbs. was done by manufacturers who want to sell more magnum cartridges.[&:]

Finally, and what I was really getting at was this: Wouldn't a .454 Casull make a sweet lever action rifle...even as a close range deer gun? The handgun has performance approaching the 30-30. A rifle version might do very well.:D

RE: Lever action rifles
 

Taken from Chuck Hawks' free site:

So, out of a pistol, it is a 100 yard deer cartridge. From a rifle, it should, I would think, make a 150 yard deer gun.


Also, what about the .500 S&W magnum?

RE: Lever action rifles
 

Yes..Lever guns shooting "handgun ammo" does go back to the old west days. This was done for the reason of simplicity... only had to carry one caliber of ammo for both weapons as well as revolver ammo being much lighter then rifle ammo of the time.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

Without a doubt. Thats a big chunk of lead and it moves pretty well from a handgun, but it would be even better in a rifle. Especially if you reload and tailor the loads to the rifle.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

No honestly it isn't a tradition...I'm not certain why it really came about, I would assume because leverguns are really good with straight wall cartridges, and NEED flat nosed ammo, which is more typical of handgun bullets...

As far as history goes, I believe the 1894 Marlin, 92 Winchester and 94 winchester, following the 73 and 66 and Henry, and of course the spencer were available in pistol cartridges...but these weren't nearly as common as their "rifle cartridge" counterparts.

The reason they're so proliferent now because of their popularity in Cowboy action shooting, where having all three guns (two revolvers and a rifle) in the same cartridge is desired (although MANY shooters load different loads for their guns, one load for the revolvers and one for the rifle).

I fell in love with .44mag because of a Marlin 1894 "rancher", now I've got three of them, and four handguns in .44mag (not to mention five other leverguns and 7 other revolvers included in my broad battery).

RE: Lever action rifles
 

I didn't read the other posts about deer hunting with a leveraction pistol carbine....Don't speak on what you don't know...I've taken deer with .44mag Marlin 1894 out to 147yrds, I've also taken deer with a 7.5" super blackhawk ranges as long as 121yrds (laser rangefinder). This was using handloads that MEANT every bit of "magnum" and filled the MARLIN'S pressure rating (handguns are rated well below what the rifles are capable of) and a scope of course. I've also used a .357mag Winchester 94 and a .45 colt Marlin 1894 on whitetails at ranges approaching 100yrds. My .44mag loads rival some .30-30 loads, using 1/3 the powder.

There are a lot of reasons people discount pistol cartridge carbines: they don't think they should scope them-->why would you limit how well you know you're on target? I like scopes on ANYTHING that I'm not ONLY going to use at short ranges, they DO make your more accurate.

They compare them to handgun performance, in many pistol cartridges, slow burning powders can mean the difference between a 6" bbl and a 22" bbl is a 50% increase in muzzle energy...my loads change from 1187fps average in my vaqueros (5.5") to 1620fps average in my 1894....230grns at 1620fps and grouping at 1.7" at 100yrds is pretty deadly.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO SHOOT LEVERGUNS. Probably the number one reason people discount leverguns is because they don't shoot them well. It takes a little getting used to to change over from a bolt gun to a leveraction.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Nomercy

I didn't read the other posts about deer hunting with a leveraction pistol carbine....Don't speak on what you don't know...

Are you telling me not to express my opinion!? Have you forgotten what country we're in?
All I said was that I did'nt feel comfortable taking a shot at a deer at a longer range with the smaller cartrige and that there we doubts in MY mind.

I guess I should'nt rant, I fully expected to get corrected by some know it all.

Metro

RE: Lever action rifles
 

For some people back in the old West, it was a matter of convinience. Foe example, cowboys on a cattle drive might choose to carry either a rifle or a pistol. Most cowboys had pistols, but the wagon would have a rifle or two. The wagon would only have to keep one type of ammo to keep everyone supplied. For the people that carried both, it was also convenient. Anyone that did much travelling on horseback could carry a much lighter load of ammo if they used smaller calibers.

The larger "rifle" cartridges were a mainstay for the buffalo hunters and for ranchers. The buffalo hunters needed the extra firepower. The ranchers had larger bore rifles simply because weight was not an issue. They didn't have to pack a heavy gun from TX to Kansas and back on a horse. We have a large caliber rifle that was bought new in the 1800's as a buffalo gun and we still have it today. That gun is a beast. It would be a burden to carry around. I was thinking it was something like a .405 Winchester. Not sure, but it is not a number I am familiar with.

The Henry was originally offered in .44 rimfire I believe. The larger calibers didn't come until a little later.

RE: Lever action rifles
 

Funny you mention this. Last night, after Mrs. Six read about that kid getting hit in the head with a .454 Casull, she asked how big a cartridge it is. I flipped through my stack of G&A and found a side-by-side comparison of the .44M/.454C/.500S&W to show her. While she was looking, the idea of a .500 S&W lever action carbine popped into my head.

I looked around on the 'Net this morning and didn't find anything mentioning it, but I figure we'll have to wait and see whether the .500 is a commerical success. It's still early in the game, and S&W might end up dumping the cartridge once the initial hype wears down. I bet that would make for a pretty interesting (and capable) brush gun.

I'd still rather go for the 1895G Guide Gun in .45-70, though. You know, just for "kicks". ;)