.308 or 30-06?
 

lets hear people opinions. My next rifle will be one of the two. I'm torn. I want extreme versatility and extreme availability in both ammo and gun choice. From coyotes to black-bear at 50-500 yards (NO, im not shooting a black-bear at 500yards!!!)
Im just trying to convey the idea of my "everything gun" which i realize will never REALLY exist. I just wondered if there where pros and cons. and why the .308 is just as popular in sniper when they seem to be big brother little brother cartridges....should've little brother be often overlooked?

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

I'll be the first to step out on a limb here. If you're looking for one rifle that would cover just about everything at just about any conceivable range then go with a .375 H&H. It will handle anything in North America including all the big bears and will easily handle most everything in Africa and other parts of the world. Although it's a little expensive, ammo is fairly easy to find.

My next choice in a "do-it-all" rifle would be quite a step down but would be a .300 Win Mag.

If you handload the 30-06 will do well though. However I personally wouldn't shoot at anything much over 300 yards with it and 400 would be an absolute maximum. The 375 will be good at that range and them some if you are able to accurately compensate for drop and drift.

As far as why the 308 is so popular with sniper groups is that snipers aren't concerned with killing a 400 pound bear or 1000 pound elk or even a 200 pound deer (though the 308 would work for all of those). They are only concerned with the effect on a human being. A 200 or even 300 pound man is a lot easier to bring down that any wild animal.

I hope this helps. If my only 2 choices were the 308 or 30-06, I would take the '06 any day and twice on sunday.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

There's not a lot of practical difference between the .308 and 30-06. 100 fps to 200 fps with most loadings. The .308 is more popular with snipers because of it's use as a standard military cartridge, as well of it's slight accuracy advantage. Some folks are going to argue the accuracy thing, but it's been pretty well been proven to have a "slight" edge on the target ranges. Check the number of 30-06's versus .308's at places like Camp Perry and other rifle ranges.

I generally prefer a .308 because it allows me to use a shorter action. The accuracy edge is just a bonus. I've got several gun safes of rifle to chose from, but I use a .308 for 90% of my hunting from varmints to deer.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

I'd say .30-06, but there's nothing wrong with a .308, and ammunition is certainly cheaper (if you like FMJ).

I find that the older I get, the more I appreciate "traditional" firearms (a Marlin 336 vs. a Bushmaster, just to pick a random example), so a whippersnapper cartridge like the .308...

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

They are both great cartridges. I own both and have for 30 years. For deer hunting its about a toss-up. For bigger game, the 308 can not quite ever match the performance of the 30-06. This simply comes down to powder capacity and a little more room for longer bullets. For deer out to 400 yards(which to my idea is at least 100 yards to far) there isn't much difference.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

I'd buy whichever one you happen to find that seems to have the best value of the package overall (e.g. included scope, gun shop followup service, type of stock, brand) - whatever factors are important to you and whichever gun in either caliber you find seems to be the best value considering your particular criteria. The differences between the two cartridges are so minor for the stuff you're thinking of that it's the other factors that should drive your decision. JMHO, of course!

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

I own both a .308 and 30-06 and in my mind they are a wonderfull calibre. I use both of them for whitetail. Being from Saskatchewan we can get some pretty harsh weather and snow, so if the weather is misserable and snow is very heavy I turn to my .308 because it is slightly lighter and more portable. If it is a mild winter i usually choose my 30-06 because i have it outfitted with a bipod and prefer it for longer shots. I have also used my 30-06 for elk and moose it works well with the right load, recently i have been using my .300 mag because it packs a bit more of a punch and can reach out further. But back to the original talk i beleive the .308 and 30-06 are both a fine choice for mid size game.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

Diyj, While the .308 cartridge design itself is inherently more prone to accuracy than the .30-06, there are a great deal of other aspects important to target shooting...for example, the .308 fits in a short action, so your lock up will be more solid, it's much more shootable from a recoil standpoint, I can shoot 100 .308rnds before I get as sore as I would from 50 .30-06's, and it's cheaper to shoot since it uses less powder (brass is usually cheaper too, for some reason, I would assume just a volume of sale thing). The military switched to the .308 because it's every bit of the killing power of the .30-06, but with less overall weight and powder consumption.

If you're considering moose or big bruins, or basically anything that might dictate that you use 180-220grn bullets, the .30-06 is the choice, it handles heavier bullets better than the .308. Up to 165-180grns, they're pretty evenly matched, but beyond that, the .30-06 starts to pull away, until anything over 220grns at which point either of them turn to crap (shot a box of 300grn .30-06's one time, TERRIBLE!).

Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either, I've got three of each in the safe right now, guess I REALLY couldn't make up my mind. (No two are really alike: .308's=Ruger compact, M-1A, and Remington 700PSS, .30-06's=M-1Garand, Ruger standard M77 and Ruger No.1, I've also got my fiance's .308 M98 customized/sporterized Spanish/German Mauser, I'm glad she lets me shoot it whenever I want!!!:D)

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

.30-06 Sprg. Good luck.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

Hard to beat the 06 for versatility. However, I prefer the 308 and if more is needed step up to a 300 or bigger. If I were truly looking for a 1 gun battery, it would be a good CRF bolt in 300 Win Mag.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

Nomercy, I was talking pure or inherent accuracy. I could list a hundred things that could affect usuable accuracy. As far as recoil, some people may be super sensitive, but in a target weight rifle I find minimal difference in recoil between the two cartridges.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

.308 Cheaper, less kick, lighter, short action.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

Just about everyone here has raised all the points to consider between the two cartridges. Of course, I'm biased, and I stick by the .30-06. While the velocities aren't that much greater than the .308, I'd rather go higher than lower. In addition, the .30-06 can handle heavier bullets and even approach magnum performance with the right bullet/powder combination. That versatility is what I look for in a do-it-all rifle.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

The .30-06 can drive a given bullet a bit faster and farther than a .308. The main reason the military adopted it was that the shorter length of the .308 is better suited to autoloading actions. The differences between the two cartridges in performance are more measurable than they are noticeable. Most of us would not notice a dime's worth of difference in practical usage.

If you like to plink and target shoot there's a lot more inexpensive surplus .308 ammo out there than there is .30-06 ammo.

For hunting, there is a huge range of factory loads for either that are readily available, and the biggest advantage you are likely to notice is that the .30-06 is better than the .308 with heavier bullets.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

This entry below is plagarized from SPEER's Reloading Manual #12:

Like many other successful sporting cartridges, the .308 Winchester began
as a military development. The Search for an effective and compact cartridge
for machine guns and semi-auto service rifles actually began shortly after World
War I and continued until the experimental T65 cartridge was adopted by the U.S.
as the 7.62 NATO service cartridge in 1954.

Winchester beat the military to the punch by introducing the T65 as the
.308 Winchester in 1952. The case was almost a half-inch shorter than the
30-06, but, with special ball powders developed for the T65, the .308 could
nearly match the ballistics of the older service cartridge. First offered in
the Winchester Model 70 bolt action and the Model 88 lever action, the .308 was
quickly picked up by other manufacturers. It was a natural for short-action
rifles and quickly established a reputation for accuracy.

Winchester barrels for the .308 were made with a 1-in-12 inch twist rate.
This limited the heaviest useful bullet weight to 200 grains instead of 220
grains, found in the 30-06. Other rifle makers have built .308 rifles using
1-in-10 inch twist barrels. There seems to be little practical difference
between the two twist rates with bullets lighter than 200 grains.

In the hunting field, ballistic differences between the .308 and the 30-06
are negligible. The choice between the two cartridges can often be made by the
type of action you prefer. A short bolt-action or a semi-auto, lever- or
slide-action favors the .308. In full-length action, the 30-06 gets the nod.
Both cartridges can be used on similar types of game. They are suitable for
anything in North America with the exception of the great bears. We prefer a
larger, heavier bullet on these.

In a target-grade rifle, the .308 can be used effectively on steel and
paper targets out to 1,000 yards. Normally bullets such as Speer's 168 and 190
grain match boat tail hollow point are used for competition. In most rifles,
the .308 is capable of top-notch accuracy.

Because the .308 Winchester is a military spn-off, surplus cases are
readily available. Military cases are often thicker than commercial ones, and
have less case capacity. Reduce charges developed in commercial cases at least
5% when loading military brass. Also, try to match headstamps for more uniform
results. The loads to not exceed the SAAMI maximum average pressure of 52,000
cup.
================================================== ==
Another tip from someone else I found that applies here:

When you are thinking about what will get the job done, remember the 3 biggest
factors affecting bullet lethality: (1) Shot Placement, (2) Shot Placement, and
(3) Shot Placement. Do this well, and it will cover up a myriad of other sins.
Pick a cartridge that's in the general ballpark of being appropriate for the
job, add marksmanship, and the rest will follow.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

Go with the 30-06. The 30-06 is more versatile in bullet weights. They both have tons of factory ammo the 308 has a few more that are cheaper, but they are military full metal jackets and are worthless except for plincking around. There is also alot to be gained from handloading the 06 and not as much w/ the 308. I think that the advantages that the 06 has are more practicle than those of the 308.

RE: .308 or 30-06?
 

The way i look at it is this, if i were to buy one rifle it would be the 30.06. very versitile when it comes to ammo. I like the fact that i can shoot anything from 125gr up to 220. It's a rifle i wouldn't be afraid to hunt pretty much anything with. Not that there is anything wrong with a 308. I have shot both and recoil difference is really not there. They feel the same to me.