cartridge/gun discussions
09-01-2004, 08:51 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
cartridge/gun discussions
I just want to point out a couple of things I have noticed on this board over the past couple of weeks...
1) There seems to be a lot of people whom like to try to hunt deer with .22 caliber guns (22-250, 223, etc.). Obviously, and correctly so, we discourage this, but some people still try to belabor the point...
2) Everyone has their favorite cartridge. What we sometime leave out is how readily available ammo is and the price of it. It is much cheaper to shoot a .223 than a .22-250, so while the .22-250 might be superior ballistically the .223 might be a better fit for the budget concious consumer.... And let's be honest, the .223 would probably serve the purpose. We also all have our favorite deer cartridge (mine is the 7mm-08) but the .308 is a great cartridge that is widely available and cheap and seldolm recommended... This follows true for the 30-06 as a great all around (if you had to own only one rifle) cartridge.
3) I like american guns as much as the next person, but why slam the european guns (some call it euro-trash)... IMHO the Sako (I don't have one I just drool over them) is the best mass-produced bolt out there right now, no disrespect the the rem 700. The Tikka and CZ are also wonderful guns. I really think the US manufacturers aren't superior to their european counterparts and are probably surpassed by them. Exceptions might be the Cooper and Kimber which are almost custom rifles. Again, no disrespect to the 700, because I know you guys all love them (just not my favorite)... To me their bolt is a little unpolished and the trigger (I know, I know it is adjustable!!) is not very good.
Just my 2 cents...
Good luck to everyone in the upcoming deer season... Can't wait!!!
1) There seems to be a lot of people whom like to try to hunt deer with .22 caliber guns (22-250, 223, etc.). Obviously, and correctly so, we discourage this, but some people still try to belabor the point...
2) Everyone has their favorite cartridge. What we sometime leave out is how readily available ammo is and the price of it. It is much cheaper to shoot a .223 than a .22-250, so while the .22-250 might be superior ballistically the .223 might be a better fit for the budget concious consumer.... And let's be honest, the .223 would probably serve the purpose. We also all have our favorite deer cartridge (mine is the 7mm-08) but the .308 is a great cartridge that is widely available and cheap and seldolm recommended... This follows true for the 30-06 as a great all around (if you had to own only one rifle) cartridge.
3) I like american guns as much as the next person, but why slam the european guns (some call it euro-trash)... IMHO the Sako (I don't have one I just drool over them) is the best mass-produced bolt out there right now, no disrespect the the rem 700. The Tikka and CZ are also wonderful guns. I really think the US manufacturers aren't superior to their european counterparts and are probably surpassed by them. Exceptions might be the Cooper and Kimber which are almost custom rifles. Again, no disrespect to the 700, because I know you guys all love them (just not my favorite)... To me their bolt is a little unpolished and the trigger (I know, I know it is adjustable!!) is not very good.
Just my 2 cents...
Good luck to everyone in the upcoming deer season... Can't wait!!!
09-02-2004, 02:22 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
I expected someone by now to have jumped in with a comment like "If reloaded correctly the .223 is a great deer gun" or "you are crazy the remington 700 is the best bolt action rifle right out of the box, there is no need to look at any other bolt rifles" or "the .270 is the best cartridge ever!!"
It is kind of refreshing other people on this board feel the way I do... Not that interesting though!
It is kind of refreshing other people on this board feel the way I do... Not that interesting though!
09-02-2004, 06:28 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,290
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
I tried to order either a Remington or a Winchester in the plain jane 308 Win, and none of my dealer's distributors had one! This will be a xmas present for little biscuit. Anyway, I did see a Remington '06, Model 700 ADL, and I liked the dark color but the machining was quite a downgrade from the .222 adl I have many years ago. Reading the long range shooter forums, I see shooters reporting 300 round barrels out of Remington, humble accuracy out of the Senderos, and serious erosion problems. Actually, that is a heart breaker for me; I remember the days when quality control was there and you could trust what you brought home. At the same time, I have seen Winchester, Ruger and I guess now Remington have such serious production problems that I won't order sight unseen. I have previously owned a sako, which did well, and I just got a Tikka. Tikka had the best production trigger I have ever had, and shot tight as well. US companies need to take notes if they want to stay in business. I will pay more for a US rilfe but I won't bring home junk.
09-02-2004, 07:12 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
biscuit jake,
I actually don't think they are junk, they just benefit from a lineage of high quality guns. I am thinking of getting a Tikka myself, but thought the bolt was a little rough, I might just save a little extra and get the Sako. As for american guns it seems to me that Savage is now leading the way in producing a very high quality rifle, albeit ugly as sin. I personally don't like the accutrigger, it makes me feel like I am shooting a glock.
If you are willing to spend a little more on an american gun why not consider a Kimber, I have a .22 on order from my dealer (it has been over a month now though). If you really want to through some money around you can't go wrong with a cooper or better yet just go all out and get a Ed Brown... LOL!!!
Again I agree overall with the fact that Remington isn't the gun it once was, but I still like the 700 if only for nostalgia. From what I hear the people who are punching paper still get a 700 and pour money into it or do the same with a savage.
I actually don't think they are junk, they just benefit from a lineage of high quality guns. I am thinking of getting a Tikka myself, but thought the bolt was a little rough, I might just save a little extra and get the Sako. As for american guns it seems to me that Savage is now leading the way in producing a very high quality rifle, albeit ugly as sin. I personally don't like the accutrigger, it makes me feel like I am shooting a glock.
If you are willing to spend a little more on an american gun why not consider a Kimber, I have a .22 on order from my dealer (it has been over a month now though). If you really want to through some money around you can't go wrong with a cooper or better yet just go all out and get a Ed Brown... LOL!!!
Again I agree overall with the fact that Remington isn't the gun it once was, but I still like the 700 if only for nostalgia. From what I hear the people who are punching paper still get a 700 and pour money into it or do the same with a savage.
09-02-2004, 09:03 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,356
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
i would go with the 223 as i have killed many deer with it. Get a remington model 700 or a savage. The 223 loaded with the right shells although is not the perfect deer round but with a shot in the boiler room its goin down just as quick as if u hit it with a big hammer. Best of luck in your decision
09-02-2004, 09:23 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
Rack Buck...
Are you trying to say go with the .223 over the .308. I would completely disagree. I do not beleive (and I think I am with the majority on this) that factory loads for the 223 are just not enough to hunt deer with. The minimum cartridge would be a .243. The .308 is a much better choice.
Are you trying to say go with the .223 over the .308. I would completely disagree. I do not beleive (and I think I am with the majority on this) that factory loads for the 223 are just not enough to hunt deer with. The minimum cartridge would be a .243. The .308 is a much better choice.
09-03-2004, 01:33 PM
#10
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: S Texas
Posts: 1,037
RE: cartridge/gun discussions
Whitetails around here are small, and a whole slew of them are killed every year with .222s, .223s, and .22/250s. They will work all right when everything "goes right". How often in your life does everything "go right"?
Many hunters have a very vague idea of terminal ballistics, at best. If a cartridge/bullet combination works once, "well, it's a surefire deer killer!" Guy on my lease two years ago had his son shoot a cull buck with a .22 Hornet loaded with Sierra's 40 grain Blitz. Kid took a neck shot, and had a dead deer. Had no idea what a poor bullet choice he made, because "my buddy loads these special, see?" Off just a bit, and there would have been a nasty surface wound, and a cripple.
Another hunter killed a 100 pound doe with his .300 Winchester. Dumped her on the ground , a DRT kill. When skinning her out, he talked a mile a minute about how his powerful .300 was so much better than those standard calibers. Bullet was completely disintegrated! Shed it's jacket, core gone to pieces, classic bullet failure! He didn't understand. Hell, it killed his deer, didn't it? I started to point out that if he had shot an animal where he really NEEDED the power of a .300 Winchester, he probably wouldn't have penetrated the chest cavity, and would have a had a cripple, or a slow, painful kill. Any bullet that went to pieces on a hundred pound doe was not going to work very well on something tougher. I gave up.
Many hunters have a very vague idea of terminal ballistics, at best. If a cartridge/bullet combination works once, "well, it's a surefire deer killer!" Guy on my lease two years ago had his son shoot a cull buck with a .22 Hornet loaded with Sierra's 40 grain Blitz. Kid took a neck shot, and had a dead deer. Had no idea what a poor bullet choice he made, because "my buddy loads these special, see?" Off just a bit, and there would have been a nasty surface wound, and a cripple.
Another hunter killed a 100 pound doe with his .300 Winchester. Dumped her on the ground , a DRT kill. When skinning her out, he talked a mile a minute about how his powerful .300 was so much better than those standard calibers. Bullet was completely disintegrated! Shed it's jacket, core gone to pieces, classic bullet failure! He didn't understand. Hell, it killed his deer, didn't it? I started to point out that if he had shot an animal where he really NEEDED the power of a .300 Winchester, he probably wouldn't have penetrated the chest cavity, and would have a had a cripple, or a slow, painful kill. Any bullet that went to pieces on a hundred pound doe was not going to work very well on something tougher. I gave up.