Is it possible for someone to think he's got the requisite talent when he don't? .... and,

Could that be why some states have regulated this very issue, i.e. they got weary of dealing with the aftermath of hunters not being able to deliver on their self-proclaimed abilities with a varmit rifle?

[States could choose to regulate/test for all sorts of things: marksmanship, game identification and judging, meat care, etc. etc. ---- BUT NO, this is THE ONE area many states have chosen to intervene on --- you gotta wonder why --- not likely it was just an accident!

Someone made the comment, "yada, yada, yada" .... that certainly does capture the repeating nature of this thread....

EKM

To compare any bullet to a broadhead, shows very little knowledge of either!
As Frizz has said, it's apples to oranges!
As to a .223, 60 gr. bullet distroying everything in it's path, yeah, it will do good damage until it hits major bone!
If you shoot a deer where it really should be shot, (not the neck or head) and you don't drop him on the spot with the .22's, I'd much rather the tracking job of a arrow shot deer!

I have enough knowledge on both subjects. If you read my previous post again, you will see I was talking about precise shot placement to the heart at extended range. Somthing you could never do with a bow. As for your theory on hitting bone, a Nosler Partition or Barnes X will snap through them like twigs, provided you keep you shot out of the shoulder. (Again, a shot you would never take with your bow, Is there a pattern emerging here? I guess the apple falls a bit closer to the orange grove, huh?)

I'm sorry. But I simply don't view a deer as this bullet proof, immortal, indestructable dinosaur with skin six inches thick, and bones of steel. People have killed them with a .22 LR and will continue to do so in the future. You cannot argue with precise shot placement of a premium bullet to the vital organs of a critter that you can throw over your shoulder to carry home.

The only animal that is deer sized that I am intimidated with shooting is a Sika deer. They are small, but every one I have shot has been horrible tracking. I shot my first one, thru both lungs and then on a running shot, I knocked it down thru the guts, then running away I destroyed the right ham with another slug. I couldn't believe it. But I knew if he got to the swamps, I was in trouble. We made it to the swamps, and here I go, breaking out the canoe, paddling finally finding him an hour later still alive. How is that possible. The other ones wasn't quite that tough besides bow shots. Then it gets interesting. This is the toughest little critter I have seen.

An elk also is something I feel I need all the power I can get. Seen em go long and far with good shots. The moose i have killed have just acted drunk and staggered and fell down. My guide every year hunts them with a .243. I was shocked. But hes the best stalker, I have ever seen. While I use a 300RUM. Boar in WV, got to wait for your shot, but easy when you wait. Might have to let him pass sometimes. But whitetail, never worried about it.

Pharoah2,

????????????

Are we talking theory or first hand experience here?
You are in Alberta, right? We are talking about deer, correct? Canadian deer aren't reknowned for being fly weights.
Either you should be on the Olympic weight lifting team or you got some of the puniest Alberta deer I've ever heard of (unless we're talking fawns or a sub-specie the size of large dogs).

You might drag one of our mulies out by the antlers, but I'm betting you are not going to throw him over your shoulder along with [or without] your pack and rifle and walk him out of even moderate terrain.

IMHO, this just doesn't ring true....

EKM

I was speaking figuratively, of course. My point was you are not trying to down an elk with a .223, just a non-bulletproof, thin-skinned deer. You are correct, most deer around these parts are large critters, but their still not indestructable.

I am a open minded guy. But a 300lb whitetail would be intimidating with a .223. I have never saw one that big. I killed a 195lb from Ky about a decade ago. But Have seen mounts of those northern alberta deer and am really impressed.

I know hunting is luck and all. But what is a persons chance of getting a 250-300lb whitetail in Northern Alberta. I frequent Eastern Canada alot for Caribou and Moose, but still never hunted Western Canada. I have been half looking at outfitters and there is so many, and would like to make the trip this year or next. With a 308 or 30-06 of course.

There's been alot of the pro's and con's over the .223 issue here . Although I know a .223 ( coming out of a Mini-14 ) will fold a good size buck down with one shot inside 100yd . Having that extra punch through heavy bush or being able to accurately take that longer shot gives me more confidence in what I'm doing . The weapon I choose depends on where I hunt . Some areas offer open spaces , thats when I'll use my good ol' .303brit. I know that I can shoot with a high degree of accuracey at longer distances , say 100yd plus. In heavy bush , where alot of the shots are 50 - 75yd , I'll either take my Win. 94 (32spec.) or the 12ga. slugger . I feel that wether the hunter likes to use a .223 or a Elephant gun , his confidence in what he/she is doing and knowing the capabilites of that favorite gun ( that means alot more shooting than once a year ) is the best way to make the most out of the " tool of the trade " When it boils right down to it ---------->>

Oh man...now we're going to discuss the ability of a caliber to "cut through brush". LOL

By the way...none will.