Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I recently spent 400 dollars on Leupold VX II scope. Got it home and slaped it on a 300 wby. My problem is that I dont see much difference in this scope and my cheaper Simmons. I have many rifles with different scopes. I have rifles with simmons, tasco, leupold, redfield, weaver, and bushnell. I have yet to see a difference worthy of hundreds of dollars. I have guns that have had cheap simmons scopes on them for over 10 years. I have carried these guns in all weather, in all kinds of conditions. I have been rough with them and still have yet to replace them. The only difference I have seen is in the eye relief. Leupolds have a greater eye relief. I still cant justify a couple hundred dollar difference for an extra inch eye relief.

Is is me, or are the over priced scopes just that, over priced.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Burnie, there's no doubt that you paid a little extra for the name. But, 20 years from now, that scope will still be going strong when the others have clouded up, loosened up, or just plain died (assuming they'll be used as much as the new one will be). When it comes to optics, you truly do get what you pay for. Be patient, and happy in the knowledge that you have a fine piece of glass there, and don't worry about it.

I think for about 50 bucks more, you could have gotten a VXIII. (read that on another forum, haven't personally tried it yet). That would have been the way to go, and still not too late as long as you didn't scratch the tube when you mounted it. Might consider upgrading.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Give it time and you will find that the cheaper one will fall apart when they are against large mags. You get what you pay for.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

It all comes down to confidence. If your shooting one hole groups with a tasco on your weatherby, then its a moot point. But when you get groups that show flyers, you start questioning your scope. Now if you saying that the leupold isn't clearer than your tasco, then something if wrong with the scope or you haven't focused it right.

Try a test. Do a box test. With your tasco zeroed in, move up 6MOA, shoot another group, then move to the right 6MOA, shoot another group, then down 6MOA, shoot another group, then move back to zero by moving left another 6MOA. One, see if that tasco is back to zero, two, see if it moved up an actual 6MOA, and over. Usually the quality of a scope shows thru at this point. Next, try setting the tasco to its lowest power, and shooting at 100 yards, then up to its highest, and see if you have the same zero. I have yet to have a problem with these two tests with a Leupold, but have had numerous problems with bushnell, BSA, etc. I have had simmons that have not stood up to the recoil of my sluggun with the reticle falling.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

The good news here is that you don't have to go either expensive or cheap. There are some good middle of the road priced scopes. Bushnell Trophy scopes go for about 100.00 on up. Swift scopes go from about 100.00 on up. The Luepold Rifleman and VX-l go for about 180-220.00 dollars. I have never had a problem with the Bushnell Banners and they go for under a 100.00. I used to use Tasco scopes. Never had a problem with them either but Tasco is a little iffy. They went down once and thier future is a little uncertain IMO. I would not be afraid to bet my hunt on a Bushnell Troopy Model. Or go a little more and get the 3200 series. They are top quality for 200.00 most places. If I had waited to hunt until I could afford a Luepold scope, I would have missed my first thiry years of hunting. I have f iour Luepolds now but they are really not that much better scopes than some of the middle priced scopes. The Simmons Aetec is one of the best scope going and they start at about 130.00 Nothing beats them for eye relief and I have seen nothing clearer or better in low light. I have a Simmons 6Xx40 straight power on my 30-06. ^%.00 I love it. Graeat light gathering and mighty clear. I would bet on getting 15 years or so from that scope. I have a Redfield and two Bushnells that I have had and used hard for thirty years so far.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

This is the one area I never agree with anyone. I've had a cheap Bushnell on a .375 H&H for over twenty years and it's never failed me in any way. I had a $90 Weaver 3-9 scope on my .300 H&H on my African Safari and never lost wink one because of it. This is something too.....I took along a backup scope as well.....a TASCO.....Yup!

I'v had Tascos on my varmint rifles and never a complaint from me!!!

I own one Leupold 3 X 9 compact that I like because of it's light weight.....other than that it's not any better than my other scopes.

I've had trouble with Simmons however.....and don't own any anymore.

This guy is not at all convinced you got to spend a lot of money to own a functioning and reliable scope.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I posted this because I have spent more on some scopes than the gun they are put on. When I said my leupolds are no clearer than the cheapies, I simply ment they didnt merit another 200 to 300 bucks. Yes my redfields and leupolds are very clear, but that clearity has never done anything more for me in the field than any of my cheapies. I have had a simmons on a 30--06 for over 10 years, give or take a few years. I have never had to adjust it. It has held 1 to 1.5 inch groups with no flyers. I guess I just started questioning the extra cash. I have a cheap weaver that has been on a 30-30 for over 20 years. Never touched it. Now I will agree with the tasco. I have had two of them in my life. The first one was not very good. It started fogging with in two years. My other tasco, which is on a 308, I gave the gun to my uncle, who has done nothing to the scope and feels it works fine. Its about 15 years old.

Now I have some expensive scopes, and for what I paid, they better not mess up. I guess since I bought this last scope, I started questioning why I pay so much. Like I said, the expensive ones are crisper, but not engough to merit the cost. I might see the difference in years to come, but then agian I have some rather old guns with the original cheapies on them.

Oh well who am I kidding, I will keep paying for new toys. Its in my blood.;)

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Burnie, I agree with you on the clarity. I used to purchase optics for my company. The price goes up exponentially with clarity and quality. But doesn't everything.

I mean you can get a 3.5MOA gun for 200 dollars fairly easy. If you want a 1.5MOA gun, you usually have to double your price to 400 dollars. If you want a .5MOA gun, you have to double that price and maybe then some past 800 dollars. But in this examples, there are exceptions to the rule, as there are with scopes. I notice the quality inspection and testing of cheaper lens is of course very sparce, but several good lenses get thru. Human interaction and testing is expensive and probably the most expensive thing.

Now that 95% transparity of a top of the line leupold has to go thru many more steps, and I can tell you, that it does cost. The problem lies where most of our eyes can't detect this from a 85% lens. But some can.

Also, its like craftsman. Do you really believe thier tools have that much more quality than a husky. Sure, a little, but you pay dearly for that lifetime, no questions warranty. And like mechanics with tools, us shooters do usually take advantage of that warranty sooner or later. I know I have with Leupold when a scope fogged up.

Bottom line, what your buying is confidense. When my groups are big with big boomers like your magnum, I just don't ever blame my scope. I blame my runout, I blame the brass, I blame me. So what I bought is confidense.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

bigcountry
That is the very reason I went with a leupold for my mag. I wanted to be confident that when shooting errors occur, I cant blame the scope. I was just pondering the excess cash. But like you said, you pay for the extra quality controle. It just hurts my wallet to pay so much for a scope, and would really hurt me if my wife knew what I paid for the expensive scopes.:D:D What she dont know, wont hurt me.:D;)

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I think the older scopes from Tasco, Bushnell, and especially Weaver were great scopes. They had to be, they were the only things out there for many years. However, it's my opinion that as time has moved on, and with the rising costs of production, they are no longer of the same quality they were 20 years ago. One reason being, they've had to make cuts somewhere to keep their scopes within a certain price range. Whether those cuts were materials, or quality control, you still wind up getting what you pay for.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Burnie, take those scopes outside about 15 minutes before sunset and let me know if you think that the 100-200 difference is well spent

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Jorgy has the right picture. Last year at just about dark was ready to leave after it was to dark for my small bino's.
I took a quick glance through my Leupold 4.5 x 14 x40 mm. There he was the biggest buck I had ever seen while hunting.
In a month or 2 he will be back from the taxidermist and on my wall.
This was an open field and my son was next to me glassing with his bino's and never saw the buck.
I was able to get a clear picture through my scope at 228 yards and take him with one shot. After jumping up and down a few minutes we needed a flashlight to walk over to the buck.
Was the extra bucks worth a buck of a lifetime? I think so!:)

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Kinda reminds me of my motorcycle. I got a roadking and 2 years ago, I always said the brakes (2 piston) was good enough on the front, and I haven't had trouble in 5 or so years Then one day on the Baltimore beltway, I locked the rear ones up because of a accident in front of me. If you stopped me in the middle of that 100 yard skid, and asked "Mark, would you be willing to spend that 1000 dollars on real good 6 piston front brakes now", I would have said "hell yea, I will pay double".

Well, your sitting there in the morning, its nasty, cold drizzle, and you see a 11pt walk out or you think you do but with the early morning fog and drizzle and low light, your not sure. You raise up tasco, and its all fogged up, and really doesn't illuminate the animal. In fact you can't find it in the scope. Somebody, comes up to you and asks, what would you be willing to pay for a good scope now.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Jorgy
I have many times. I hunt with every gun I own. When I night hunt for hogs, my best scope is a simmons 2*26*50. It gathers light better than my leupold of similar specs. This is one of the reasons I question the line of reasoning as to whether you get what you payed for. I paied about 130 bucks for the simmons, I paied over 400 bucks for my leupolds. When I night hunt, I grab the 7mm mag with the simmons on it. I pass up my 30-06 with a leupold 6-18X 40mm.

By the way, no I dont think the difference is worth 200 bucks. My personal oppinion. Funny thing about this, I tend to like the guns I have set up with the cheapies better than the ones set up with the expensive ones. Example; I have a rem. 700 Bld, 30-06 with a leupold, I have the very exact gun, same claiber with a simmons whitetail on it. I have used the one with the whitetail more than twice as much as I do the one with the leupold. Reason, I dont really know. They both work about the same. It might be Im afraid of damaging the expensive one. I live in the sticks, so I have a rifle with me almost all of the time. I shot coyotes skunks, hogs etc. on a daily basis, so I get a lot of use out of my guns.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I would hope you would smart enought to pass up a 6-18X50 for hog hunting.

Well, all I can say is your a lucky man. Lucky because he doesn't have to spend the same amount as most to get what they want. congradulations.

What kinda of scope did you get for 400 dollars VXII?

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Bigcountry, that is it, VXII

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I do have to confess, I love my redfield. Ill keep buying the expensive stuff. Cant get it out of my system. People have been using the motorcycle analogy, I can relate. I use to ride a harley XLT, I could put on 500 miles with no problem. Nothing wrong with the old sportster, just wanted better. I went to a ultra, then a roadking. Each one did the job, but some looked a whole lot better, and had a better ride.:D

I guess this is also part of the reason I just bought a leupold for my 300 monster.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I had hunted with a 4x Refield for years. Never thought much of it until 2 years ago. Started looking at new scopes and ended up with a Leupold Euro and a Simmons Aetec. They both looked good at the store but it wasn’t until I got to the range and saw ho w clear the were compared to my old Refield. They have both served me well so far. I would love to get a top of the line scope to compare with my others but maybe later not now. So all I have to say, it all depends what someone wants to spend. After all the person who makes the money should have fun spending it too.;)

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I've looked through a lot of scopes that are very clear both expensive and cheaper ones, but i don't buy a scope based on that alone!

Take your scope, put it in the freezer over night, and then the next day drop it directly from the freezer into luke warm water!! "If" you see any bubbles, i wouldn't want it on any of my big game rifles no matter what it cost!!!

All of my "so called expensive" scopes easily pass this test! When i hunted for weeks at a time in weather from freezeing to warm all on one hunt, i just did not need a scope that would fail, because i tried to save $$ on my scope!

BTW, although i do own several brands of scopes, i don't own even one Simmons, or Tasco scope, i have more Leupolds than anything else.

Drilling Man

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I have Leopold down to tascos and cheap is not the way to go. I have found this to be true: that is refurbished scopes are better than new ones. It's like this, buying a new scope you run a chance that something is flawed. They can't check every scope. You buy a refurbished scope and not only do they fix what ever was wrong but they check everything else and you get an unflawed scope. I have 4 now and they all have been great at half the price.

Natchez had an airrifle scope 6x18 with target knobs refurbished gauranteed water proof, fog proof and......shock proof. Well I'll just see about that. I put in on my 7 rem mag and 1000 rounds later it workes great.

It's refurbished for me from now on.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I have an old Bushnell(about 30 years0 The other day I dropped the rifle on a cement sidewalk and dinged it pretty good. I did the freezer thing with it. I put it in the deep freeze overnight then threw it in a sink of hot dish water. No fog or steam or anything. Quess its ok. Still shoots good. I love the newer Simmons 6X pro-hunter. I took it out a couple nights ago along with my best Luepold. I watched some deer with them in the park acroos the road from my house. That Simmons showed those deer much clearer about dark than my Luepold. Time will tell weather it will stand up for many years but I am betting it will. There are bucket fulls of scopes under 250 that will last a life time or two and give excellent service. I have never missed an animal or a shot at an anuimal because of a faulty scope. This in 48 years of hunting with scopes.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Jim, I can safely assume that Mercedes Benz will never ask you to field test any cars for them in the near future!! :D

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Seriously folks, here's a little test you can do to REALLY see if the scope you're looking to buy is worth it or not.

1. Pick out a Nikon, Leupold, Swarovsky (sp) or other "high dollar" scope.

2. Then pick out a scope of lesser cost. If they are adjustable, set both on the same power level (less magnification is better for this test)

*Now it's not fair comparing 40mm scopes to 50mm scopes on this test, so keep them the same. You're testing manufacture, not features*.

3. Now flip both scopes around, and look through the objective ends of them (hold them out side by side like binoculars but away from your face so you can basically see the same thing through both scopes).

You will be amazed at not only the brightness of most higher dollar scopes, but also the clarity of the object you're looking at.


PS. This test will work for all types of optical equipment including binoculars.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

True, they are bright. Most of us really don't need bright but rarely. But this is our hobby. So we usually don't skimp.

I have tried and tried the cheap scope theory. It hasn't worked out for me. Most recently, I tried to get a fixed 2X Pine Ridge for my Muzzleloader. I got this about 2 years ago and used this combo for two seasons. The glare from the white sky in my eyepiece was horrible. Made difficult for early morning shots. Wouldn't happen with a higher dollar coating. Ok, then at the range, I needed to move the recticle down 2MOA and over 2MOA. It was all over the place. I looked at the adjustment thru a collimator and was shocked. Did not move smoothly at all. And 2MOA adjustement was more like 1MOA in one direction and 3MOA windage. So I just put on a Leupold VarX III 1.5-5X20 I got off ebay for around 300 dollars. Couldn't be happier. Now I am just bothered that I get all that residue on a scope worth more than the gun from my 209 primers.

This is only one incident out of 3 for me. I have always ended up changing to another scope.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

rkbo.. I also like to buy refurbished if I can .. where are you finding them and what brands? ..Thanks Bill

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I have always thought the important thing was scope clarity. I would purchase a clear cheap scope, about $80. But no more. I have had two cheap scope failures in the last two years. Rifle recoil is not the problem. Both were caused by 4 wheeler viberation. You can shake the scope and hear the insides rattle. Both were Tasco. And yes, I carry the gun unloaded and in a hard gun case on the 4 wheeler. Now I try to find good used scopes at pawn shops. I missed a Burris for $60. The man was paying for it when I arrived. However, I did get a good Redfield 3 to 9 a couple weeks later.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Danny45. It was a bone headed trick. I had the rifles and several other things in my hands and was trying to unlock the front door without setting everything down. I knew better but sometimes those brain farts get me.:D I don't use the cheapest scopes from any companies except for some of the cheaper FIXED POWER scopes. Just never seen one go bad. I will not however use a real cheap variable power scope. Many years ago they would change POI with change in power. Some of the first expesnive scopes had the same problem. I have Tascoe pronghorns 4X on four different rifles. They have been on them for six years so far. Never a problem. I have two Leupold 3x9x40 and one M8 4X. they work graet but no better than my Swift and Mid priced Simmons. 60.00 +. I still want a M8 6x42. My favorite scopes are Straight 6x and 2x7 powers.
If I ever have a problem with the Bushells and Simmons, believe me I won't be buying any more. I have a little trouble when I hear someone say " I have tried upteen of those cheap scopes and they all failed me. DAAAHH! WHY???

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Always buy cheapie scopes! That way, it won't cost you much to replace the one you bought last week, when it goes ka-flooey! If you want to see how the Leupold is better than the Simmons, put them both on a Ruger No.1H 7.5 pound .45/70's and load your 400 grain bullet up to 2270 FPS MV. See which one's adjustments still work after five rounds..... (Hint: It WON'T be the Simmons!!)

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I did have a Bushnell Banner on a Ruger No 1 in 416 Remington Mag for several years. It was a stright 6X I sold the rifle but that scope is still in use now on my 260 Remington. A friend of mine has a Simmons Aetec on his 458 Win Mag and its made several trips to Africa. Most all companies make some good and not so good scopes. I would put the Aetec up against anything short of a Night Force or Shepard. The Aetec is good for the big Magnums because it has 5 inches of eye relief. Midway sells them fior 139.00. I just ordered one for my Marlin 45-70.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I hate like heck to pay the price, but give me a Leupold or Nikon any day over a cheapo. I would hate to lose a big buck because I tried to save $150 on a scope. If I'm going to try to save money it will be on the rifle. A good Savage or Ruger will do everything you want without breaking the bank, and leave some extra for the scope.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I know what you mean. I would hate to loose a chance at a trophy because of a bum scope/ I never have and when I shoot a scope of any brand for enough years to gain full confidence in it, I have every reason to believe it will do the job for me. The Bushnells have never failed me nor have the better ones of any brand.

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I have another, slightly different angle on this discussion. I happen to be one of those old-fashioned types that does NOT care for variable-magnification scopes. I have always preferred
a fixed-power scope of no more than 6X. Of my two current rifles, one wears a 6X and the
other, a 2.5X. (they are both .308's.... but I have never had any great difficulty in hitting the
target... at the ranges over which I shoot (250 yds max.)). Both scopes are moderately-priced models. I have had both for some time... and used them in all manner of conditions. They have both maintained zero very well.
My conclusion is that, as long as the scope is of decent quality in the first place (and not all
of them are) then one is more likely to get consistent performance from a moderately-priced fixed-power model than a similarly-priced variable. I would think that this would simply have to do with
the lack of optical and mechanical complication of the fixed-power scope. It is true (I believe) that
a more expensive scope will offer better overall quality, in most cases. The question, as I see it,
is, will the extra quality be worth the money ? In my experience, with my preference for fixed-
power scopes, the answer is no.
I must add, though, that if I used variable-power scopes, I probably would go much higher in
the price arena for a proven, well-regarded model. With the inherent complication and optical
design factors of the variable-power scopes considered, I think one would be better off in paying more (though not for, perhaps, the most-expensive model).

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

I faced the same scope dilema recently and decided to go with a leupold vari-x II, while you do pay for the name, the quality that backs is up is worth far more than the price you pay. We were up elk hunting when the 280 fell scope first onto some rocks, next morning we took it out and at 150 yards it was in about a 2 inch group on a paper plate. I would pay far more than $200 for that assurance

RE: Scope delima, cheap vs expensive
 

Targetpuncher. You are exactly right. I prefer fixed power scopes as well. When it comes to Fixed power there is very litttle to go wrong. I have tome 20.00 Tasco Pronghorn 4X scopes that have been in use for six years. All of them are on high power rifles and none has ever changed the point of impact one little bit. I wish there were more fixed power scopes available. My Simmons Pro-Hunter was 60.00 and it has been perfect as well as having better low light capabilities than any of my Luepolds.