Ruger has me stumped
 

I have started working with the new 260 Ruger now that its warmed up a little in the frozen North. I have tried Remington factory corloks in 140 grain. The didn't group very well. About 2 - 2 1/2 inches. I then tried 120 grain Sierra pro-hunter's. Didn't group much better. I have tried H 4831 , Reloader 15 and H414. My best velocity through the 22 inch Ruger barrel came with a Max load of H414. @ 2910 fps with the 120 Gr. The best groups have been just over 1 1/4 inch with Sierra 85 grain Varmiters at about 3350 fps. Well I tried another H414 load today 120 Gr,(windy again) the group again around 2 inches. I waited a while and the wind died down so I went out to 200 yards and set up four pieces of clay tergets about 3 inches square. Back to the table. Broke all four pieces with four shots. What gives here? could that darn thing shoot better at 200 yards than it does at 100? I have had the trigger redone and I have about two hundred rounds through it so far. I am thinking of Floating the barrel. I am not the best at shooting at paper targets. I am more apt to hit a little piece of clay target at 200 yard than I am to hit a 4 inch bullseye at 100 yards. Maybe its a mental thing. I might try to hard when it comes to group shooting although I shoot good groups with my Remington pump. The pump however seems to fit me better than any other gun I have had. I have not played around much with the angled action screw and I have heard that it can effect the way the shoot. Any Ruger shooters have an idea on this? The last Ruger I had was a 7MM mag and it shot very well. It kicked like three Mules though.:D

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Now there's a good idea.....IMO that should have been done BEFORE you went to the range.....OK...I know...

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

A friend has a .223 that he was ready to sell because it would not group at 100yrds.
He is very good with rifles and tried everything.
One day just for grins he started blasting away at long distance targets,200yrds and farther, it was a tack driver.
For what ever reason it seemed liked the bullets were not stabilized at 100yrds. No matter what weight of bullet or load he tried.

Good luck!

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

I am not used to having to float barrels as I shoot mostly Remingtons which use the pressure point system. I loaded one more load tonight and will give that a try befor I do anything else. Thanks for the replys.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Some rifles do group better beyond 100 yds. Good luck

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

That could be the whole thing! I do that alot, I shoot at paper and have ok groups but aren't what I want. I go and shoot at objects 200-500 yards out (not on a bench) and hit them. I go back to the bench and can't group close enough. I think its just in my head!
[quote]
I am not the best at shooting at paper targets. I am more apt to hit a little piece of clay target at 200 yard than I am to hit a 4 inch bullseye at 100 yards. Maybe its a mental thing.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

I got my Ruger 77 300 WSM shooting .6 inch groups at 100 yards with a 180gr XLC at 3000 fps. All of the guns I reload for Ruger, Remington, Thompson, and 2 Mausers all shoot better at the max loads. What type of scope do you use? All my scopes have normal cross hairs while my uncle has a scope that the cross hairs stop in the center and there is a circle(no cross hairs in the circle). At 100 yards the target is too close to have a definite aiming point and the best group I can get is about 1.5 inches. I know with normal cross hairs I could shoot it a ot better than that. All of the guns I reload for shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards with two of them toughing holes and three of them under .5 inches at 100 yards.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

I'll accept that on your word....however I've never experienced it myself. Can anyone explain the physics in this?....are we saying that the bullets may actually travel in a helical path? Sorry but I'm totally unable to dream up a force diagram to explain this.....heck with it.....I just plain don't believe it.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Its hard to believe but I did read an artical in Rifle Magazine where the Author said 'Although it is rare, some rifles will shoot better beyond 100 yards" It was an article by Boddington on Long Range Shooting. He didn't go beyond that statement. I will go out today and do a little more checking. Thanks for the comebacks.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

my ruger redhawk is like that. It shoots better at 50yd than 25. I had a 7mm rem mag that would do it also with some loads. If you will notice a football thrown is a little wobbly till it stabilizes. I think a bullet can do the same. Just my theory.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Vapdog and James B.

There is a section in the Speer manual either 11,12 or 13 that talks about "Modes" in external ballistics. The 3 phases are Modus violentus, modus medius, and modus terminus, if my memory serves me. It may be in a Nosler manul for all i can remember. But I rember reading it and being set with that "AH HA!" response. It seems that a bullet/barrel combination (and the various combinations of powder/primer/case/COl with in a bullet) produces flights of rotaional harmonic varibility. As I read and understand it some Modus violentus phase extend from 0-75 yds. on average, and the medius75-200, and terminus 200 out. SOME rifle/barrel/bullet combinations have an extended violentus ranges extending out to 125 yds. So the 100 yd range group will concievably be rotationaly varible more than the medius where the bullet settles down and the rotational harmonic becomes stable throughout the entire flight path of the bullet. Remember that the bullet is not shooting flat and in a line, but a spiral within an arc. harmonics are easier to judge when all things are straight and linear, but rotational issues throughout an arching flight get really complicated.

NOW, this may be a theory, but I believe that is why the Match bullets work over several ranges because the shape/jacket combos "dampen" the harmonics of the barrel/bullet combo. My 165 g SGK loads show this very thing, larger MOA at 100 yds and smaller groups at 200 yds. I shoot them at .70 MOA at 100 yds, and .35-.40 at 200 yds. So it explains my findings.

HOWEVER, there are probably more varibles I am not taking into account. MY 200 yd group BTW is in the RUGER ACCURACY forum on the 1 or 2nd page.

Dana

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

OK found it. It is in the Speer Manual #12, page 109. I was wrong on the names. It is
motus violentus. The area immediately in front of the muzzel. The bullet is not fully stabilized FULLY after the violent transition from the chamber to bore to free flight.

motus mixtus portion of the bullet path where normal stability occurs induced by the effect of gunbarrel and rifling.

motus naturalis, portion where velocity is dropping and is shedding velocity and stability, again becoming varible.

The arch described by the bullet path is parabolic arc, which is more complex than a simple cicular arc. Check more out on a google search of "Short, medium and long range ballistics"

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Bed the action, Float the barrel & Do a trigger job. Then take it back to the range.
If that does not help have a gunsmith recut the crown.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

Have you tried different bullet seating depths? With my .223, The farther I set the bullet out the better it shoots. Can't remember exactly how much different (don't have my load log with me right now), but the difference was about .010" and made about 3/8" difference at 100yds. I would try different seating depths before doing major modifications to the rifle. It sure is a lot cheaper.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

The last group I shot yesterday came in at just under an inch. I took all the stock screws loose then tightened down the two rear ones real tight then just barely snuged the angled front action screw. This left a small gap between the barrel and stock that you can see open and close if you squezz them together. This seemed to float the barrel slightly. I didn't have my rear sand bag just the front one or I could have maybe cut it down to 3/4 or less. Anyway I think that load will be my deer load this fall. It was the Sierra Pro-hunter with 1/2 grain below the max of H414. I did play with the seating depth but not much as the magazine is shorter that the throat anyway. I may yet try a couple 140 grain bullets and twiking the 120 a bit more. I don't think I will be able to get the velocity I want with the 140 grains. At least not with any of the powders I have tried so far.

RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

It certainly could! A lot of rifles do! The bullet sometimes has to have time to "go to sleep".

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RE: Ruger has me stumped
 

I finished free floating the barrel today. If I ever get another calm day I will take it out and try it again. I got a 3/4 inch group today from the 257 Roberts in my 700 Remington synthetic. It likes the Hornady 100 grain Interlock. It also shoots well with the 120 grain Nosler Partition. I should have the Roberts all ready by tomorrow for the Fall. I am reloading about 50 rounds of Ammo for it tonight. I may have to take it to a Gunsmith to adjust the trigger. I can ussually do my own Remington triggers but one of the screws is frozen. It will not turn for nothing.