.44mag vs. .30-30
 

A buddy of mine is looking at buying a new levergun, Marlin for certain, but he's torn between the 1894 and the 336, .44mag and .30-30 respecitively...he wants it for hunting deer at various "short to mid" ranges, likely no longer than 200yrds.

So which would you recommend and to what ranges: I gave him my advice but I'm pretty biased, so he asked if I'd find out some more "level" opinions on the matter.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Nomercy, IMHO, the .44 mag is a short range cartridge at best, even coming out of a carbine's longer barrel. It's still a handgun cartridge. With it's short, fat bullet, I'd limit it to use to ranges less than 100 yards.

Of the two you mentioned, the 30-30 will give much better performance on deer. Also, as much as I like the 30-30, I think 200 yards is stretching it a little. Most lever guns are not MOA shooters. In fact, most would be lucky to be 2-3 MOA shooters. That really opens up at longer ranges and makes it difficult to precisely place the bullet where you want it. With an expert shooter who has a good understanding of ballistics, and a very accurate rifle, it is capable of taking deer at 200 yards and maybe beyond. But for the average shooter like me, and an average shooting rifle, I'd limit shots to 150 yards max.

Again, that's just my opinion.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Danny 45 summed it up well.I agree I would limit a 30-30 to 125-150 yards max.For close ranges in brush, I would rather have the 44mag.Heavier bullet weight.For longer shots I would look beyond the 30-30 or the 44mag.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Another vote for the sleeker 30-30 at those ranges. Nothing against the .44 mag, but for 200 yards you want a rifle bullet.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

I agree......30-30 is the better choice.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

The 30-30 is cheaper to shoot and can be loaded hotter than the 44 mag. they also make sabboted bullets I think they are .22 cal but I have never shoot any

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Ok, I was in a kinda spiteful mood, full of pi$$ and vineagar the day I wrote this one up, so excuse me for this thread, it was an intentional trap....

God's honest truth I wanted to hear exactly what was said mind you....

Fact of the matter, the buddy of mine already shoots a .30-30 (among various others) and I'm a die hard .44mag man, I asked him when he bought his first dirty thirty why he went with it instead of a .44mag like mine (he fell in love with my 1894 and went to town to buy one, came back with a 336), he said because he wanted the flatter trajectory and more power.....

A while back we got to cussing and discussing various guns, and I brought up our leverguns, we got to running some numbers through the reloading manuals and found some interesting results, so off to the range we went....chrony and lots of targets and ammo in hand.

Granted, these were just four guns, all Marlins and relatively good shape, but our results confirmed the reloading manuals'...the .44mag is stouter than the .30-30, some loads aren't so at the muzzle, but nearly all 10 handloads and 5 factory loads were at 100yrds, at which point the .44mag was bumping around 15-1800ft.lbs., with the .30-30 pushing out between 12-1500ft.lbs......We also confirmed that the trajectory was better in the .44mag, with similar relative weight bullets that is (i.e. a 125grn .30-30 was flatter than the 300grn .44mag, but if both were loaded "usual", "light", or "heavy", the .44mag was almost always flatter flying!!! On average the .44mag rounds were an inch higher/closer to POA than the .30WCF, not a huge difference, but surprising nonetheless.

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't done it, in fact, the only reason we did it was because we didn't believe the manuals...they were about as close as usual, and inherently correct about the "more powerful" round.

Like I said, I apologize for "trapping" everyone, I just wanted to make sure where everyone stood before I went and blew anyone's mind! Sure blew mine when we were tallying up numbers.

Check my own older posts, I've claimed the .44mag only huntable to 150yrds and the .30-30 to the same or maybe a little more on numerous occasions, even though I've hunted both to ranges 50yrds past that mark to good success...guess you learn something new everyday.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

With the right load and bullet the 44 Mag is lethal on anything it hits out to 100 yards. The 30-30 has plenty of pop left at 200 yards for deer size critters. The only factor limiting the 30-30 to less than 200 yards is the ability of most people to be able to place the bullet where it needs to be with its somewhat rainbow trajectory. My son has no trouble killing deer or hitting them out to 200 yards. This is a feat that I cannot duplicate. He could shoot that 30-30 rifle from the first time he laid hands on it. He has the touch with a rifle and shotgun that is unussual for a guy who does not shoot very often. He must take after his uncle who was a hell of a shot as well.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

The 30-30 is the better choice. What can I say that hasn't already been said.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

30-30 Win. Good luck.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Nomercy, I'm surprised by your test results. One question, did you shoot the two rifles for groups? I'm interested to see how the .44 mag did. I still believe that the BC of the 30-30 makes it a better choice for longer ranges. How accurate was the .44 mag compared to the 30-30 beyond 100 yards?

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Danny, actually, we tested four rifles, two of my marlin 1894's (one a 1980's model and one a brand new 2003), 20" and 22" and two of his .30-30's, a 336 and a 30A, 24" and 26" respectively if I recall correctly....(BTW Is it the 30A or the 39A? One is a .30-30 and one is a .22lr, I just can't recall which is which at the moment).

We had two 4-16x glasses that swapped around and we each shot all four rifles (took two days!!). We did all shooting at 16x once things were sighted in (and other than muzzle velocities). All shooting was from a bench vise, calm "windless" day, sunny.

Mind you the following doesn't refer to all the ammo we tested, but what we get done with our pet handloads or best shooting factory ammo:

His 30A is quite good for accuracy, his 336 is a ways behind it, but still pretty good, if I recall he was getting 1.5" groups at 100yrds with his 30A, while his 336 was giving just a little over 2" at 100yrds.

My 1894's are a bit farther apart, the 1980's model has been ran ragged by my father and myself, I get 4" groups at 100yrds on a good day, 4.75" is more average for it....My new 1894 is superb on accuracy, 2" at 100yrds isn't asking much of it with good loads, it really likes Winchester super-x half jacketed soft points, and of course I've tinkered various handloads around to similar accuracy.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

The ballistic program I have shows the 30-30 170gr having 990ftlbs at 200yds shooting 1619fps and the best 44 mag is the 275gr getting 729ftlbs at the same distance still clocking 1093fps.
The 30-30 shoots so much flatter that I still would go with the 30-30. The thing is if you load a super hot 44 mag you should load a super hot 30-30 to compare it with.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Forget both of them and buy a .444 Marlin.

It gives you the best of both worlds. A big heavy bullet and all the trajectory you need to hunt any animal this country can throw at you out to atleast 200 yards.

Remingtons 240 grain factory loads are great for deer size game and if he wants to hunt bigger and badder animals than deer like elk and moose and bears bump it up to the Hornady 265 grain light mag load, Corbons 280 grain load, or one of the Buffalo Bore loads.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Bigbulls, I tried a .444M on for size when they first came out, and I honestly wasn't very impressed...it's a good round, but at the time, it was limited to basically the same effectiveness of the .44mag. This problem may have been alleviated by now, as at the time it was basically a problem with bullet performance, no one made a rifle bullet in .429/.430", so your effective hunting range was basically that of a .44mag handgun....It filled a gap, so to speak, between the .44mag rifle and the .45-70 in power, but not in performance, given a good rifle bullet, I'd say it would bridge the gap better, but already having .44mag rifles and .45-70 rifles, I didn't need one in between...the .44mag's good to 150+/-yrds in my hands, and the .45-70's good as far as I can see (I've done a lot of shooting at 6-800yrds with it). Having a .444M that does 175-200yrds didn't serve much purpose for me. If I didn't have any of the rifles I have and didn't shoot .44mag so much, I'd still buy the .45-70 first, but might consider the .444M

rkbo, not many men will argue "program data" against proven field results...as I said, it surprised even myself, but the proof is in the pudding...BTW, re-read my second post on here, you'll be surprised about your "so much flatter" trajectory. Your program likely figured the data for a handgun for the .44mag, most of them do, at which point I'll refer you to the fact that I'm shooting a rifle with a stronger receiver and about 4 times the bbl length.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

Nomercy, I know you a young smart engineering guy full of pi$$ and vinagar and but I think you need to rerun your numbers. A 30-30 shooting a 150gr bullet Sierra FP at 2300fps (nothing uncommon has a BC of .224. At 100 yards, has energy of around 1244 ft/lbs at 1933fps.

A .44mag shot thru a rifle, 240gr Sierra FP, with a BC of .185 and at 1800fps (HOT), and flattens primers when I try it with 24.5gr of H110 has 1090ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards and 1431fps when calculating manually. With Infinity, and varible BC depending on velocity, still only 1143ft/lb. still not being more stout.

I know how bad you want the .44 mag to be more stout but the numbers you have don't jive, unless you are pushing the .44mag at 2000fps at the muzzle. And if so, thats the fastest .44 I have ever seen. And at 200 yards, the wheels comes off the cart due to the extremely high BC on that bullet.

RE: .44mag vs. .30-30
 

I see how ya got your numbers. You ran 125gr bullets. I am just not used to shooting 125gr bullets in a 30-30. Actually don't know anyone that does. I know remington doesn't load them. Maybe federal offers some. Only used to 150gr and 170g. Still you can pick any bullet/velocity combo out of the 44mag, and not be stouter than the 30-30 with 150gr or 170gr energy or velocity wise.