** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
03-30-2004, 09:56 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
I have a feeling I'm opening a can of worms here, but this is a serious question and issue, and I know right away the knee jerk reaction from many is going to be "Shoot First ask questions later".......but hear me out, I was having this conversation with the wife the other night as I do keep a loaded firearm in our bedroom. It is there for a reason ; to be used in defense of my life,family and property.
BUT
I'll give you a very possible scenario:
3:00 AM, you hear breaking glass and footsteps downstairs........get the wife up and into the bathroom have her lock the door with the cell phone on 911.
Decision time: You meet the intruder as he is half way up the stairs TAC light in his face, You are armed with a loaded 12 ga. at the top step.
Now here's where it can get sketchy.......If he's armed the decision is a whole lot easier, but from what you can initially tell he's not armed? Or even naked (Then you could tell for sure)
BUT even though you THINK or know that he's not armed, he's non compliant and will not stop?
Let's make it more complicated........he won't stop, but he's of obvious small stature and you think unarmed. For example I'm 6'3" 250lbs and a pretty strong guy, would it make a difference if the intruder was unarmed and say 5'5" and 130lbs but still non-compliant?
Do you take the chance and try to subdue?
Now the REALLY hard part.....if he's armed, the decision is unfortunate but rather easy, but if you THINK the person is unarmed, if you decide to shoot do you shoot to kill, or shoot to stop(IE Leg,Knee)?
Is there such a thing as having to determine a level of "threat" before you can use deadly force in your own house? In this age of frivilous and unbelievable lawsuits is a homeowner liable for such an action if they percieve a threat......or is the level of threat determined later in an investigation and your actions on trial?
Please no fighting over this, I know it's a pssionate issue.....I would welcome a rational discussion.
BUT
I'll give you a very possible scenario:
3:00 AM, you hear breaking glass and footsteps downstairs........get the wife up and into the bathroom have her lock the door with the cell phone on 911.
Decision time: You meet the intruder as he is half way up the stairs TAC light in his face, You are armed with a loaded 12 ga. at the top step.
Now here's where it can get sketchy.......If he's armed the decision is a whole lot easier, but from what you can initially tell he's not armed? Or even naked (Then you could tell for sure)
BUT even though you THINK or know that he's not armed, he's non compliant and will not stop?
Let's make it more complicated........he won't stop, but he's of obvious small stature and you think unarmed. For example I'm 6'3" 250lbs and a pretty strong guy, would it make a difference if the intruder was unarmed and say 5'5" and 130lbs but still non-compliant?
Do you take the chance and try to subdue?
Now the REALLY hard part.....if he's armed, the decision is unfortunate but rather easy, but if you THINK the person is unarmed, if you decide to shoot do you shoot to kill, or shoot to stop(IE Leg,Knee)?
Is there such a thing as having to determine a level of "threat" before you can use deadly force in your own house? In this age of frivilous and unbelievable lawsuits is a homeowner liable for such an action if they percieve a threat......or is the level of threat determined later in an investigation and your actions on trial?
Please no fighting over this, I know it's a pssionate issue.....I would welcome a rational discussion.
03-30-2004, 10:18 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,220
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
First off, I never train to wound. When I hang the silhouettes up, I'm going to aim at the sternum every time. I want the highest chance of making a hit along with the highest transfer of energy to the vitals. If someone has the nerve to threaten my or my wife's lives, I'm going to reply in equal terms.
However, I would choose not to shoot until a viable threat to my/her life is identified (be it firearm, knife, club, etc.). That's a tough call sometimes, but I want to be sure. If I were to confront this person on the stairs without seeing a weapon, I think a solid blow to the head with the butt stock of my 870 would be in order. With the call to 911 in, hopefully I would need only a few minutes of time to maintain the situation.
However, I would choose not to shoot until a viable threat to my/her life is identified (be it firearm, knife, club, etc.). That's a tough call sometimes, but I want to be sure. If I were to confront this person on the stairs without seeing a weapon, I think a solid blow to the head with the butt stock of my 870 would be in order. With the call to 911 in, hopefully I would need only a few minutes of time to maintain the situation.
03-30-2004, 11:01 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA USA
Posts: 570
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
Let's make it more complicated........he won't stop, but he's of obvious small stature and you think unarmed. For example I'm 6'3" 250lbs and a pretty strong guy, would it make a difference if the intruder was unarmed and say 5'5" and 130lbs but still non-compliant?
Do you take the chance and try to subdue?
Let's make it more complicated........he won't stop, but he's of obvious small stature and you think unarmed. For example I'm 6'3" 250lbs and a pretty strong guy, would it make a difference if the intruder was unarmed and say 5'5" and 130lbs but still non-compliant?
Do you take the chance and try to subdue?
03-30-2004, 11:54 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,395
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
Matt / PA
I think the decision to shoot someone is the toughest choice you might have to make in a split second of time?
If you decide you need to shoot someone to stop them? IMHO You are better off shooting to kill. I hope you are never faced with this choice. The reason I say shoot to kill? Dead people can not tell there version of the story. They also can not take you to court & sue you for shooting them in your home.
DO NOT fight hand to hand unless you are unarmed or your weapon malfuntions giving you no other choice. As long as you are pointing a gun at him you are the one calling the shots. Never let the intruder talk his way out. Do not let him leave without the police putting him in handcuffs & taking him away. Always press charges. Make the law work for you & do not drop the charges.
Do not try to hit someone with your weapon. You are giving him a chance to grab it. If they get your weapon they could use it on you & your family?
The best case senerio: Your wife & kids in one room that is behind you, phone in hand talking to the 911 operator. You could confront the intruder face to face with your weapon of choice. Remember you are no good to your family if you are dead so don't do anything too crazy.
I think the decision to shoot someone is the toughest choice you might have to make in a split second of time?
If you decide you need to shoot someone to stop them? IMHO You are better off shooting to kill. I hope you are never faced with this choice. The reason I say shoot to kill? Dead people can not tell there version of the story. They also can not take you to court & sue you for shooting them in your home.
DO NOT fight hand to hand unless you are unarmed or your weapon malfuntions giving you no other choice. As long as you are pointing a gun at him you are the one calling the shots. Never let the intruder talk his way out. Do not let him leave without the police putting him in handcuffs & taking him away. Always press charges. Make the law work for you & do not drop the charges.
Do not try to hit someone with your weapon. You are giving him a chance to grab it. If they get your weapon they could use it on you & your family?
The best case senerio: Your wife & kids in one room that is behind you, phone in hand talking to the 911 operator. You could confront the intruder face to face with your weapon of choice. Remember you are no good to your family if you are dead so don't do anything too crazy.
03-31-2004, 12:10 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
Aught Six beat me to it- but stoke them with your 870. If you do it right, there is no way they are going to grab it from you. Its a whole lot easier to defend in court than shooting someone who you find out isn't armed. If you don't know how to buttstroke someone in close quarters, find an old Marine and have them demonstrate for you.
If you do shoot- always shoot for center of mass- easiest to hit, and is most effective.
Alot of the decision making will have to be on the actions, gestures and postures used by the intruder.
If you do shoot- always shoot for center of mass- easiest to hit, and is most effective.
Alot of the decision making will have to be on the actions, gestures and postures used by the intruder.
03-31-2004, 12:27 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
I know that this would be a very dificult decision to make in a matter of a second or two and I would like to think that I would give a warning before firing but in the event of protecting my family and myself against an intruder I would probably shoot them. Thankfully Colorado has a "make my day" law which protects persons in a shooting when they are inside their house. Is someone is breaking into my house at 3:00AM I figure they are not there to tell me a bed time story. I have thought about this many times and If it was possible all of my family would be in the same room armed and waiting and on the phone with 911. If it is not possible for all to be in the same room I will be covering the doors to my kids room as well as my room shile keeping as much cover as possible between myself and the intruder while my wife is on the phone with 911.
In the near future I plan on taking some fire arms training courses concerning exactly this.
I would never attempt to but-stroke or otherwise fight with an intruder and give the intruder a chance to take your weapon. If he does then you are SOL. Besides that, you don't know if the intruder is high on crack, PCP, hearoin or a number of other things that you would not be aware of. If the intruder that is not armed and continues to make advances toward you after repeated warnings then fire your gun because you simply do not know his mental and physical state. There have been numerous instances when people high on certain drugs simply do not feel pain and may not be aware of normally debilitating injuries and many times end up over powering the defending person. Keep your distance from the intruder and if you need to then shoot them in the chest. If they still keep coming after being shot in the chest the shoot them in the head.
In the near future I plan on taking some fire arms training courses concerning exactly this.
I would never attempt to but-stroke or otherwise fight with an intruder and give the intruder a chance to take your weapon. If he does then you are SOL. Besides that, you don't know if the intruder is high on crack, PCP, hearoin or a number of other things that you would not be aware of. If the intruder that is not armed and continues to make advances toward you after repeated warnings then fire your gun because you simply do not know his mental and physical state. There have been numerous instances when people high on certain drugs simply do not feel pain and may not be aware of normally debilitating injuries and many times end up over powering the defending person. Keep your distance from the intruder and if you need to then shoot them in the chest. If they still keep coming after being shot in the chest the shoot them in the head.
03-31-2004, 03:37 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: dedham massachusetts USA
Posts: 1,361
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
in my state if your are able to get out of your house without confronting the intruder you have too.
but in my house it is a second floor dwelling and if he is coming up stairs and my family is blocking the path to get out then things change. i would tell my mother,father/sisters or my finacee to call the cops while i confronted the intruder. i was also told by a cop that you have to kill them cause you will get sued by the intruder. ( even thoough i wish this would never happen.
if i told him to drop and lay on the floor and don't move. fine i got him tillt he cops come. he would have to come by me to get to the rest of my family. so depending how nuts he is he would have to get to me to get to my family. but if he does have a firearm or weapon and still comes my way. then i will give him ample warming's and if it came down to it. either my 8mm mauser, M1 garand or shotgun will have to be used. i would aim for the chest or head. to drop him in his tracks.
but then after thatthey wuld take my guna and arrest me as a murderer untill i was found inocent and gaurding my family.
very touchy subject in the state of MA.
but in my house it is a second floor dwelling and if he is coming up stairs and my family is blocking the path to get out then things change. i would tell my mother,father/sisters or my finacee to call the cops while i confronted the intruder. i was also told by a cop that you have to kill them cause you will get sued by the intruder. ( even thoough i wish this would never happen.
if i told him to drop and lay on the floor and don't move. fine i got him tillt he cops come. he would have to come by me to get to the rest of my family. so depending how nuts he is he would have to get to me to get to my family. but if he does have a firearm or weapon and still comes my way. then i will give him ample warming's and if it came down to it. either my 8mm mauser, M1 garand or shotgun will have to be used. i would aim for the chest or head. to drop him in his tracks.
but then after thatthey wuld take my guna and arrest me as a murderer untill i was found inocent and gaurding my family.
very touchy subject in the state of MA.
03-31-2004, 05:33 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 5,233
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
If someone broke in my house during the night, regardless of what size he is , being an uncertain threat to my family, even unarmed, it would behoove him to follow my exact instructions.
03-31-2004, 05:59 AM
#9
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 188
RE: ** Shooting a "Home Invader"?? **
I pity the poor fool that decides to enter my house at any time of day or night with out permission.
The 1st thing their going to meet is 'Fred' and he is pretty grumpy if he gets woke up, if he wakes up to a stranger I think it could get down right scary.
If I have to get up to check on the dog and find someone in my house trying to do him bodily harm well, I'm not going to say a whole lot as I can't talk and shoot at the same time in any situation.
Once I'm sure everything is under control and my dogs OK I'll call the police.
The 1st thing their going to meet is 'Fred' and he is pretty grumpy if he gets woke up, if he wakes up to a stranger I think it could get down right scary.
If I have to get up to check on the dog and find someone in my house trying to do him bodily harm well, I'm not going to say a whole lot as I can't talk and shoot at the same time in any situation.
Once I'm sure everything is under control and my dogs OK I'll call the police.
