Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

I went out today with my NEF 7mm-08 to shoot some handloads and after shooting some proven loads my two best groups at 100 yards was 2 3/4" and a 3 1/2" groups. This is totally unacceptable to me. I need some advise on what to do with this rifle. I already went to the closest gun store on the way home to look for one in the same caliber but they had none. So I am home with this rifle. I really like it , but not with this kind of shooting. I know its not the scope because I have a proven Leupold on it. It is the single shot NEF. there appears to be some verticle stringing, but it is really up and down stringing. ONe shot up then next down. Etc. Can anyone help? Thanks

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

Tryed any good (federal) factory loads thru it? I got a 270 that loves a 4064 load but not other gun does. What is your load. I am sorry, as I have limited experience with NEF. Maybe take to a gunsmith to do a quick check on headspace. Not sure. If it was a bolt, there is all kinds of things to look for. When you say proven loads, is this in another gun?

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

My loads were as follows. I got them from others suggestions and my brother in law who shoots the 7mm-08. 1. Was 139gr. Horn. SP with H 4350 @ 47 grains. 2. Was 140 gr. Sierra Spitzer BT's with H 4350 @ 47 grains. The Sierra Spitzer Bt's was the 2 3/4" group. I also shot a couple 140gr. Nosler Part. with 41.5 grains of IMR 4064 and saw they were shooting opened up also after 3 so I quit shooting. I have yet to get any consistency from this rifle. I have fired one 4 shot group that measured 7/8" but that is smallest and was pleasing. I have put around 120 rounds through it and also did a breakin on the rifle and have cleaned it thouroughly after every trip firing. Maybe I need it to be fouled and dirty to get good groups???? Who knows???? Maybe free float the barrel by pillar bedding it up??? Or should it have some pressure on the foreend? It has a thicker tapered barrel almost of varmint measurements. And the barrel is 22" long. Thanks again for all the help I can get here.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

Some of the NEF rifles need to be free floated. Some of the guys put a small rubber O ring on the barrel stud to relieve pressure against the barrel. The forend is usually the problem. Also check and see if the fit is to tight beteen the cap on the rear of the forend and the reciever. Also you might want to polish the bore or except the idea that it migh take few hundred rounds for the barrel to start shooting well. Another thing to try, If your useing a rest, Keep it as close to the reciever as you can. Make sure the rest it in the same spot all the time. Repeat procedure is important to getting good groups with these rifles though thier hunting acccuracy is quite good. On one of mine I put two or three strips of mounting tape side ways on the forend in the barrel channel. My idea was to try anything to keep equal pressure between the barrel and forearm. If you need to take the little cap off the near end of the forearm and sand just a little off so the cap is not putting pressure against the reciever. Sometimes these little rifles take a little time and tinkering to make them shoot good. For some of us diehard NEF nut, this was half the fun.
My NEF 280 has the 26 inch barrel and shoots about 1 1/2 inch groups. The good thing is that although the groups are not real tigh, it never misses the X buy moe that an inch in any direction. It has what I call good hunting accuracy, your going to hit awful close to where you hold. Some NEF rifles seem to shoot better with the lighter bullets for caliber. If you stick with it I think you will find it will shoot pretty well.
One last thing Clean the rifle very well to start. Clean everything that you can get to. When yo finish cleaning the bore, its best to set them muzzle down. If you don't then any left over oil and stuff will run down into the chamber and may cause cases to stick. In other guns this oil can run out of the bore but on the break action the oil is trapped in the chamber. Sorry this got so long but these rifles hold a spot close to my heart:D You can polish the bore by repeated strokes with patches coated with Flitz metal polish. Then claen the bore real good.
One more last last thing. Many of the rifles have quite a bit of free bore so if you load you may want to seat the bullets out accordingly. However to great of OCL or long casings can cause them to stick in the bore when trying to unload a full cartridge. They will ussually pop out after you fire them in this case.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

James B is right on the free-floating. I did mine with 2 o-rings between the screw and barrel and it helped immensely. I also sent it back and had the trigger lightened. It cut my groups on my 223 from over 2" to about .75".

Fiddle around with loads, too. What works in one gun doesn't necessarily work in another.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

2 3/4 -3" sounds good enough to take down any animal with a broadside shot in the lungs and heart.
unless you want sub 1" groups i think those are fine groups.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

With a little tinkering they will shoot 1 1/2 or berrer groups. I shoot 120 grain Pro-Hunter Sierra bullets in my 280. I load them to about 2900 fps. They may over expand or come unclued on deer size game at to much more velocity than that. The 140 gr may be a better choice for most people.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

Guys, if you can get me to 1 1/2" groups at the least, I will keep this rifle and be happy. As long as it can do it consistently. Thanks again.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

My son has the youth model in 243; my wife can put 3 of the Federal ( cheap ones) in one square of a sighting in target (a dime will easily cover it). It has a cheap Bushnel 4x scope on it. They are capable of doing some amazing things. Oh yeah that's off a bench rest

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

I would start with polishing up the bore and relieving uneven pressure on the forend. Then shoot about 100 rnd through it clean it several time in between strings of shiots. Then fix your rest as decribed above and give it another try.BE SURE WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER THAT YOU PULL IT ALL THE WAY AND HOLD IT FOR JUST A SPLIT SECOND. Otherwise the tranfer bar may pull back to soon giving inconsistant ignition. This seem strande but its true.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

If your handloading for this gun you'll need to work up a load that your gun likes. The most accurate is rarely the fastest. take care of the barrel, two o-rings is hardly a bankbuster and even though your scope is proven I would also check the rings and bases. You didn't say if you were shooting offhand, or off bags from a bench etc,.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

ok, I floated the barrel. I only had and could find one o ring laying around and it was small, so I took an old credit card and cut it up and drilled holes in the center of it to fit over the barrel stud. IN all I used the small o ring, and two peices of card put together to get the barrel floated. I can now take two sheets of paper and run them between the barrel and the forend up to the barrel stud. Does this sound like a good fix? Will the peices of old credit card(plastic) be ok for this float job??? I must say it did a good job free floating the barrel as long as the plastic does not give and compress over time, this barrel should stay floated. What do you all think? Is there a such thing as to floated?? I would guess that the two pieces of card and o ring together are about 1/16" maybe 3/32" . Thanks again.

For a rest I was using sand bags. The cross hairs seemed steady as a rock on my aim.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

It sounds like that should work. You have the right idea so just keep expirmenting. Be sure the rest is close to the reciever and the same place every time. It still might take some rounds fired through it to reach it full potential.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

For lots more info on NEF/H&R rifles try www.graybeardoutdoors.com there is a forum just for these rifles. Most of the guys from H&R talk are over there.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

First of all, are you using "proven" loads that were proven it that gun? Every gun likes a little different load. Secondly, check all the settings on your reload equipt. Sometimes the bullet seater will move up or down if it is loose.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

First off I would start with factory loads, then I would use a sandbag under the hinge and one under the butt of the rifle, and fire a group (remember to take your time, barrell heating can cause stringing too). You really have to remember to do everything the same so that the sandbags are in the same place, your hands are in the same place on the gun, rt hand on grip and left holding side of sandbag under butt of rifle. Like JamesB said, squeeze and hold the trigger. I'd check to be sure that the scope mountings are tight. If that doesn't work it might not be a bad idea to try a different scope and just see, you never know. Make sure the gun is going to shoot before you take the time to test handloads, you can't figure out which groups the best if nothing groups.

Then with the handloads start at the listed start charge and work up. What works in one gun may or may not work in another.

Sounds like there can be a lot of tinkering with these NEF/H&R's. I'm actually looking at one now..Nice to know some of the quirks before I get to this point....

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

Jamesb's advice sound very reasonable. If I were you I would try to follow his suggestions. I love my NEF .223 It shoots very very good. Of course it isn't the prettiest gun in the safe but who cares. I have to keep James's info on file in case I get another NEF and it doesn't shoot.
Another tid bit for all you guys. - There is a product on the market called JB Compound which is excellent for "breaking in" a new rifle and for refurbishing an older barrel. It is a slightly abrasive barley paste that removes the tiny burrs in the rifling produced during the manufacture. It also cleans the stubborn build up from the rifling where the grooves and lands meet that accumulate over the years in older barrels that you can't see. You use this product sparingly. If you shoot alot, about once or twice a year is enough.
I had a 270 that shot like a house on fire when it was new. After 15 yrs or so, the groups started to open up. I thought I had shot it out but took it home one day after a session on the range. Ran some JB through it, cleaned it out and now it shoots great again.

RE: Need Help with Groups. TOO BIG!!!
 

I would suggest trying some different handloads. Every gun has it's favorite load it will shoot the best. Its not alway going to be a floating problem or a trigger. Between the two I would opt for a lighter trigger before going and floating a barrel. Especially a single shot rifle.

You wanted a specific load when you had the rifle in mind. You may have to change that. One thing you can try is buying a box of ammo in the 139gr. and see how the rifle likes those compared to the handloads you are producing. Second thing I would do if none of the 139gr loads work is try a different weight of bullet. And just maybe if none of it works you bought a rifle made on friday afternoon about beer time.