The truth about guns and loads.
12-27-2003, 07:40 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harriman NY
Posts: 45
The truth about guns and loads.
Over the last several weeks I've read with interest a number of opinions.... some very strong opinions about "which gun" or "which bullet" to use on certain game. I'd like to express what I feel is the truth on the subject.
There is presently an almost unlimited selection of combinations of caliber, powder, bullet, brass and primers out there. Many but not all of these combinations overlap at a certain distances and under certain conditions. To argue for more than 30 seconds over which is best is a waste of time and breath. What it should be about is how well you and your selected combination perform at the time you squeeze the trigger.
Most big game calibers will make whatever you're hunting.... dead.... as long as you place the bullet in the right location. Bullet placement has always been and will always be the single most important factor in taking whichever animal we hunt. We should spend less time searching for the magic combination and spend far more time on the range learning to shoot that rifle as well as we possibly can.
There is presently an almost unlimited selection of combinations of caliber, powder, bullet, brass and primers out there. Many but not all of these combinations overlap at a certain distances and under certain conditions. To argue for more than 30 seconds over which is best is a waste of time and breath. What it should be about is how well you and your selected combination perform at the time you squeeze the trigger.
Most big game calibers will make whatever you're hunting.... dead.... as long as you place the bullet in the right location. Bullet placement has always been and will always be the single most important factor in taking whichever animal we hunt. We should spend less time searching for the magic combination and spend far more time on the range learning to shoot that rifle as well as we possibly can.
12-27-2003, 09:32 AM
#2
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: The truth about guns and loads.
Hi cdr4thBn,
Welcome to the forum! You couldn't be more correct....that the person behind the gun is usually much more important than the specifics of the caliber, make/model gun, load, etc. But....if you hang out here more than a month or two.....you are going to hear these "arguments" so often that you will eventually do like everyone else:
- Get tired of it...and leave the forum.
- Not feel like "arguing" that particular day...and skip the thread.
- Feel "frisky" that day.....and join the melee.
- Having a "bad day" and lay it on thick.
- Just laugh and join in anyway.
I think those cover most of the options
!
Anyhow....glad to see you here!
Dave (aka.....akbound)
Welcome to the forum! You couldn't be more correct....that the person behind the gun is usually much more important than the specifics of the caliber, make/model gun, load, etc. But....if you hang out here more than a month or two.....you are going to hear these "arguments" so often that you will eventually do like everyone else:
- Get tired of it...and leave the forum.
- Not feel like "arguing" that particular day...and skip the thread.
- Feel "frisky" that day.....and join the melee.
- Having a "bad day" and lay it on thick.
- Just laugh and join in anyway.
I think those cover most of the options
!Anyhow....glad to see you here!
Dave (aka.....akbound)
12-27-2003, 10:01 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: The truth about guns and loads.
AK,
That is an accurate assessment of the decision process. I had to laugh as I worked my way down the list. IMHO, the smartest folks stick with Number Two.
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cdr4thBn,
It is always hard to argue with good shooting however if one makes hunting a "one variable endeavor" then it gets real simplistic, especially given that everyone on an internet forum is an absolute "crack shot."
Before, I put your version of the “truth” on file as my hunting reality, please fill me in a little:
** What is your definition of “big game” and your experience taking said “big game”?
** What is your definition “big game” calibers (cartridges) and what range (low to high) does your (owned or previously owned) “big game” calibers cover?
If we're talking deer, yeah, you can knock them over with a stick. If we're talking big game, then the leeway in the discussion gets considerably smaller. Just looking for a little "experience/objectivity" cross-check before I consider selling the bulk of my rifles and returning to "placing bullets" with my childhood 30-30 that I haven't used for 36 years.
Thanks
EKM
That is an accurate assessment of the decision process. I had to laugh as I worked my way down the list. IMHO, the smartest folks stick with Number Two.
-----------------------------
cdr4thBn,
It is always hard to argue with good shooting however if one makes hunting a "one variable endeavor" then it gets real simplistic, especially given that everyone on an internet forum is an absolute "crack shot."
Before, I put your version of the “truth” on file as my hunting reality, please fill me in a little:
** What is your definition of “big game” and your experience taking said “big game”?
** What is your definition “big game” calibers (cartridges) and what range (low to high) does your (owned or previously owned) “big game” calibers cover?
If we're talking deer, yeah, you can knock them over with a stick. If we're talking big game, then the leeway in the discussion gets considerably smaller. Just looking for a little "experience/objectivity" cross-check before I consider selling the bulk of my rifles and returning to "placing bullets" with my childhood 30-30 that I haven't used for 36 years.
Thanks
EKM
12-27-2003, 10:49 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mtn. Hse. Alberta
Posts: 823
RE: The truth about guns and loads.
Cdr4thBn
You say "Bullet placement is the single most important factor". I agree that it is a very important "factor" and then what are the other "factors" and how important are they?
If you are shooting solid non-expanding 50 gr. bullets from a .223 and you hit a deer in the chest at 200 yards. You have great "bullet placement" but the other "factors" are pretty dismal. The same shot with a 7mm mag and a good 150 grain bullet will give high marks for all "factors" and result in a very dead deer. (not that a 7mm mag. or 150 grain bullet, is needed or the "best" cartridge in this situation).
I think we would all agree that the ability to hit vital organs is very imoprtant. So when we get into cartridge and bullet discussions we are interested in 1. the ability to hit vital organs at long ranges, 2. power to do devistating damage to those organs when a good hit is made (and perhaps the devistation to the animal when a less tham perfect hit is made) 3. the power to do devistating damage to the annimal when the angle through it to vital organs is through a lot of meat and bone.
When a deer is standing broadside feeding at 60 yards, a 150 gr. bullet from an open sighted 30/30 through the ribs will do him in. If the same deer is walking straight away at 200 yards I would rather have a scoped 7mm mag. and a 165 gr. bullet. I would not take this shot with the 30/30.
Robin
You say "Bullet placement is the single most important factor". I agree that it is a very important "factor" and then what are the other "factors" and how important are they?
If you are shooting solid non-expanding 50 gr. bullets from a .223 and you hit a deer in the chest at 200 yards. You have great "bullet placement" but the other "factors" are pretty dismal. The same shot with a 7mm mag and a good 150 grain bullet will give high marks for all "factors" and result in a very dead deer. (not that a 7mm mag. or 150 grain bullet, is needed or the "best" cartridge in this situation).
I think we would all agree that the ability to hit vital organs is very imoprtant. So when we get into cartridge and bullet discussions we are interested in 1. the ability to hit vital organs at long ranges, 2. power to do devistating damage to those organs when a good hit is made (and perhaps the devistation to the animal when a less tham perfect hit is made) 3. the power to do devistating damage to the annimal when the angle through it to vital organs is through a lot of meat and bone.
When a deer is standing broadside feeding at 60 yards, a 150 gr. bullet from an open sighted 30/30 through the ribs will do him in. If the same deer is walking straight away at 200 yards I would rather have a scoped 7mm mag. and a 165 gr. bullet. I would not take this shot with the 30/30.
Robin
12-28-2003, 08:07 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harriman NY
Posts: 45
RE: The truth about guns and loads.
EKM,
What constitutes a "big game" rifle is another one of those questions that's leads to more endless discussion. A .243 certainly qualifies as a big game rifle, having seen many deer killed with one. However, what will do the job and what is the best tool for the job is another matter.
I leave home on January 15th to hopefully kill an elk in New Mexico. My selection of rifles runs from a .243 through the 7mm category, into the 30 caliber selections. My choice is a 300 Win Mag using handloaded 180 gr.FailSafe bullets @ app.3100 fps. Why? Because that's the best choice for the particular game I'm hunting with the available rifles at hand.
We read in this forum everyday someone touting a particular rifle/caliber over all others. Well folks, I work for a living as do all my friends. I know no one who has financial wherewithall to buy the number of guns that would be needed to satisfy our unlimited wants. Hell, I have more than I need but not as many as I want. Just like everyone else.
Someone else asked me about my background in one of their posts. I answered some of that already but I'll add just one thing. I think if I had to move all the spent brass I've fired in my lifetime it would take a fairly large vehicle to do so.
What constitutes a "big game" rifle is another one of those questions that's leads to more endless discussion. A .243 certainly qualifies as a big game rifle, having seen many deer killed with one. However, what will do the job and what is the best tool for the job is another matter.
I leave home on January 15th to hopefully kill an elk in New Mexico. My selection of rifles runs from a .243 through the 7mm category, into the 30 caliber selections. My choice is a 300 Win Mag using handloaded 180 gr.FailSafe bullets @ app.3100 fps. Why? Because that's the best choice for the particular game I'm hunting with the available rifles at hand.
We read in this forum everyday someone touting a particular rifle/caliber over all others. Well folks, I work for a living as do all my friends. I know no one who has financial wherewithall to buy the number of guns that would be needed to satisfy our unlimited wants. Hell, I have more than I need but not as many as I want. Just like everyone else.
Someone else asked me about my background in one of their posts. I answered some of that already but I'll add just one thing. I think if I had to move all the spent brass I've fired in my lifetime it would take a fairly large vehicle to do so.