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-   -   Core-Loct fails me again! (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/46948-core-loct-fails-me-again.html)

JagMagMan 12-21-2003 10:41 AM

Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Well, Core-Locts have failed me again! For the last time! I will be using something else next year.
That makes twice this season that the CL's have dissapointed me. This time the shot was about 80 yards, about the same as the last one was.
Except this time the deer ran a lots further, through a thick pine plantation, full of briar!
I am using the 150 grain CL's in a 7MM Rem mag. I knew that I had made a decent shot, but I didn't find any blood. At first I thought I made a gut shot, and was going to be in for a long evening of tracking, and I figured I'd never find anything! After trampling the pine thicket, I found a little sign and about twenty yards later, there he lay! It was not a gut shot, but a double lunger!
This is the second time that the CL has failed to expand, leaving no blood to trail. As I said the shots were both about 80 yards. With my .308, I have never had this problem, I am wondering if the 150 CL's in 7MM RM are just going to fast at that distance to expand? I was very lucky to recover this deer at all!
Has anyone else had this problem with the 7MM RM Core-Locts? Also, does anyone have a good recommendation of bullets that will expand and preform well on deer in 7MM RM?

pyral 12-21-2003 10:57 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
There is more than a handful to choose from as far as favorites go, but I have always loved the Ballistictips. I am sure many others will have their recommendations from the Partitions (great bullet) to Power Points to Grand Slams and a bunch more that are worthy of recognition. At least you have the whole off season to find what you want and get it shooting good!

Josh

Vapodog 12-21-2003 11:24 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I don't believe there's any such bullet that kills deer in their tracks all the time.......

In fact, the Core-loct and power point bullets are good deer bullets, but there's a reason all the bullet companys have been forced to bonded bullets...the customer wants them.

In my opinion the best bullet leaves a tennis ball size exit hole so that you have a good blood trail to follow. The way to achieve that is heavier bullets and if you wish bonded or particians. Even that is no guarantee however, This fall I killed a big doe whitetail using a 200 grain Swift A-Frame and it didn't exit. It did leave a blood trail that a blind man could follow and the doe was found in abput thirty yards.

Give the Nosler Particians a try in about 160 grains.

skeeter 7MM 12-21-2003 12:13 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I have always perferred Ballistic tip or boattail designs for a deer bullet. In my 7mm rem mag I use the Hornady SST (154gr) or the NBT in 150 gr for deer both have provided excellent results in the field and on the range. Most have dropped on the spot and if they did muster some run after the shot it was well under 50 yards with a very good blood trail to follow. I also used the hornady 154 gr interlock on 1 of my wt buck this year while moose hunting and was very happy with the performance.

stubblejumper 12-21-2003 12:32 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
There is no such thing as the bullet going too fast too expand with hunting bullets.The faster they are travelling the more they expand.The problem with too high a velocity is that they may overexpand and come apart.They will however fail to expand if the velocity is too low.

eldeguello 12-21-2003 12:44 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 

I am wondering if the 150 CL's in 7MM RM are just going to fast at that distance to expand?
Absolutely NOT! There's NO SUCH THING AS GOING TOO FAST TO EXPAND!!

frizzellr 12-21-2003 12:47 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I have never liked CoreLokts in anything. Just never performed well for me. Unfortunately they usually shoot really well. I always used Federal ammo before I started reloading. Now I use Sierra GameKings and Nosler CT Balistic Silvertips. I like the performance I am getting especially from the Noslers.

strut 12-21-2003 12:57 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Winchester Surpreme ballistic silvertips.

akbound 12-21-2003 01:23 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Hi JagMagMan,

The biggest problem any manufacturer has in designing a bullet is to get it to perform within a "set of parameters". The same bullet that makes a lightning quick kill on a broadside lung shot on a whitetail at 275 yards from a .308 Winchester......will likely fail miserably if shot from a .300 RUM on a frontal quartering shot on that same whitetail. If it is "soft enough" to open at long range from medium velocity cartridges.....it will likely "nearly explode" when pushed from an ultra fast cartridge and hits its target up close! Premium bullet manufacturers try to overcome some of these "problems...(ie. variables)...by designing in features to answer both sets of circumstances. Like the Nosler Partition. It is designed to rapidly open the front portion of the bullet and transmit lots of trauma even when impact velocity is low. It also has a partition dividing the core....so the rear portion of the bullet can not come apart...and therefore continues to penetrate. But even the best of bullets are not "perfect".

And it is hard to know for certain that the corelokt "failed" on the above described scenario. It did after all penetrate "through and through" on a broadside shot....and created enough trauma to kill the deer. (Though it ran about 80 yards.) But still, from that instance it would be hard to draw a conclusion of failure. If the "hit" was through the lungs...and placed high through the lungs.....the lungs would have to "fillup to the entrance or exit holes" prior to running out. I have hit deer in the lungs (and blood was "sprayed out" at the point of impact...but then no more blood, (or very little), until the lungs were full of blood. And usually the deer is dead, or nearly so, by then.

Quite a number of years ago I loaded some .30-06 and .308 Winchester cartridges using both Sierra's 150 and 170 grain .30 caliber flat nose bullets. These bullets were intended to work....and open up....at .30-30 velocities. I loaded these bullets to roughly .300 Savage velocities. I wanted the bullets to expand "very rapidly"....but not to explode on the surface. And in approximately 9 out of 10 unsuspecting deer hit with those loads....did nothing but drop. Very few ever did any thing other than drop...or give a convulsive leap. But one day my wife jumped a big doe from the hilltop above me. As she came trotting down the hill I shifted my position to get ready for the shot, and she saw me at about 20 yards. She did not try to change directions...but dropped her head and flat out "flew past me". At nearly muzzle contact distance I shot once and saw nothing but an eruption of "purple-red" in my 2X scope. She was over the "bench" so fast I never got another shot. As I gathered my things I heard my wife yell and ask if I had shot. I told her I had and pointed out my "things"...pack...scent...etc. and told her to stay with the gear while I quickly followed the deer. We hunted public land in Pennsylvania...and you don't waste time recovering your deer.....or someone else will! That deer travelled down hill nearly 100 yards. The bullet had hit the bone in the right front shoulder and had turned her lungs and heart into liquid jelly. You could spin her right front leg in an entire 360 degrees. But the bullet did NOT exit. Now based on that incident you could conclude one of several things. The bullet did not exit....so did it fail? The deer did not drop immediatly...so did the bullet fail? The bullet killed the deer and I recovered it...so did it succeed? The internal trauma to the chest cavity was massive....so did it succeed?

The reason I had loaded those bullets that way was to try to introduce massive trauma internally and put the deer down as quickly as possible. Both I, and people I know, have hit deer fatally and lost them to another "hunter" because the deer had run 50 - 100 yards and someone else got a bullet in it. Or even once or twice.....didn't even shoot it....just found it first and tagged it. So rather than argue with someone about who made a killing shot...the idea was to "put them down quickly". And it did that....nearly all of the time! But I knew not to try to take a shot other than through the ribcage. If I would have tried to push those bullets length wise through a deer.....it would have failed to penetrate sufficiently....and made a terrible mess of an external wound.

I related on an earlier thread on this site that I once observed my brother shoot a medium sized whitetail at "maybe" 30 yards. I visually saw her near side shoulder momentarily collapse...and pop back out. (Looked like someone had stood on her back and smashed her shoulder with a 12 pound hammer.) She flipped upside down, all four hooves flailing, then regained her feet and quickly disappeared up the hill. I never even thought to yell at him to try to get another shot. Not only had it happened quick....but I honestly thought we'd have a dead deer on the ground within 50 yards or so. She topped that hill, circled to the other side of it, went down the far side, to the heaviest of cover at the river's edge.....where we lost her tracks among the myriad of other deer tracks. We spent four hours looking for her that afternoon....and never saw her again! I have know idea what happened. Bullet might have "sailed through" and failed to expand. Bullet might have "blown up" on the near side shoulder and never reached the vitals. To this day.....I have no honest idea what happened. Just what I saw! In case you're wondering...he hit her with a Hornady Interlock, 150 grain .30 caliber bullet, out of a .30-06....standard velocity reload. That same bullet and load....from that same 760 carbine....had killed alot of other deer....but it dang didn't kill that one, (at least we didn't recover it). And she had travelled probably better than a quarter mile to reach that river. Go figure!?!

My point of all the above is simply this. You might get the kind of performance you'd like to get 95 times out of a 100. And if you did...would that mean the bullet worked? Or failed? I guess which of those times someone asked! But people do have a tendency to remember the 5% of the failures over the 95% of the successes. (Though often they will only admit to their successes;).)

I don't know what to tell you about that particular load from Remington out of your 7mm on whitetail. What I do know is that even on a good lung shot animal....frequently there will not be alot of blood visible on the ground....unless the exit hole is rather low on the anatomy of the animal. If the exit hole is higher up on the shoulder you frequently won't get massive amounts of blood within the short distance most animals will run with their lungs shot through! Which is exactly the reason why I always question people I know when they tell me they got a shot...but missed! (I've actually convinced my brother-in-law, and two separate friends......all of whom I knew could shoot.....to go back out with me and look some more. In all three cases...we recovered dead deer!)

If you lack confidence with that bullet and load....then by all means switch! But you may find out that the next load doesn't do anything better than the one you just left!

Best of luck to you though with your search!

P.S. I don't have a financial interest in Remington....or any other ammo manufacturers either:D!

JagMagMan 12-21-2003 02:07 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Thanks for the input guys!
I have used the partitioners before, and I will probably go back to them.
I also may try the ballistic tips, I have heard that they expand too well sometimes though!
Anyway I do have all the off season to find a new load. I don't mind trailing deer, but I do need something to follow! I know some manufacturers will tell you that the bullet did its job, if it takes down the animal, wether or not it exits!
This Core-Loct seems to not have expanded at all, the exit was no larger than the entrance! I never did find a drop of blood and as I said, I feel very lucky to have found this deer!

akbound 12-21-2003 02:44 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Hi again JagMagMan,

I've used partitions quite a bit...and have a lot of confidence in them. The five years we lived in Alaska I used them more than every other bullet type put together.

Can't say I necessarily blame you for switching though....I know that doe we lost "shook my confidence" with Interlocks for quite awhile. Especially when you "don't know" the answer to ("what happened"?).

Currently my .260 Remington is zeroed with 120 grain Nosler Ballistictips. I've used them successfully on whitetails....and they are "rather soft". They give me great terminal performance on broadside shots...but I'd be hesitant to try to shoot through heavy bone. I'd be even more hesitant to use them on animals tougher than deer. In the .260 for anything bigger than deer I'd either rezero with the 125 grain Partitions....or just switch to a decent 140 grainer.

Once again, best of luck with the new load!

Dave

ralphie 12-21-2003 03:30 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Core-locts in my .243 have yet to fail me. No problems here.

Danny45 12-21-2003 03:53 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Well, I'm going to get blasted for this, but I for one believe that velocity, distance, and bullet construction can and will have a effect on bullet performance. I've seen fragile bullets like the Hornady SST literally blow up inside 200 yards on deer. Better bullets have mushroomed as they should have beyond 100 yards, but while inside 100 yards, they just punched a small hole without ever expanding. My last 8 point was shot at 70 yards, broadside, with 150 grain Core-Lokts out of a 30-30 rifle. Deer dropped in his tracks and never moved. I have never had a problem with Core-Lokt bullets.

If I was going to use any bullet other than the plastic tip bullets inside 100 yards out of a gun such as the 7mm Mag, I'd aim so that one shoulder was taken out.

stubblejumper 12-21-2003 05:43 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
The primary factor effecting how bullets expand is the resistive force that they encounter.This in turn is determined by the velocity of the bullet and the media that it impacts.Given the same media the faster a bullet travels the more it expands.If the media is bone or another hard media the bullet will usually expand much more than if the media was soft tissue.It is possible that a bullet moving faster may expand less than a bullet moving slower if the faster bullet strikes a media that offers less resistance but slowing a bullet down will not make it expand more if it strikes the same media.In other words a slower bullet striking a rib before entering the chest cavity may expand more than a faster bullet that slips between the ribs but if both bullets strike the rib or both slip between the ribs the faster bullet will expand more.The idea that a bullet is travelling too fast to expand is a myth believed only by those that do not understand how and why a bullet expands.

Gary10ec1 12-21-2003 07:32 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I have used Core-Lokts for about four years now and haven't had a problem. I shoot 165 grain in a 30-06 and they shroon pretty good in hogs deer and this year a very unfortunate bobcat. I have more of an issue with the variability in the shape of the tip. May move to balistic tips but for now $11 a box fits me just fine.

Stone Cold 12-21-2003 08:06 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
7mm Rem Mag.....I would shoot the Hornady 139 BTSP or the SST......

I have shot this for three years and have always dropped deer within 30 yards and had a blood trail......like someone poured a five gallon paint can to the deer.

I shoot this round and the 7mm rum and I wish I had this round already loaded....I have to reload to get it.....hopefully next year I will start

Drilling-Man 12-21-2003 08:44 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Just because a style/type of bullet works in one cal/weight, it doesn't mean it will work in all the others. SO, if Cor-loks work in a 30-06 for example, that doesn't mean they will work in a 7 mag..

Biggest problem i see a lot, is guys are useing too big of a gun for the game they are hunting!!! My nephue uses a 338 mag for whitetails!! Those big game bullets just weren't designed to work well in smaller animials.

I've shot a lot of big game animials, and the bullet that has been the best for me in all the cal's i've used, is the Nosler partitions. The nose is soft and expands well, then the partition stops the expasion, allowing the rest of the bullet to drive on through.

I haven't recovered many N. partition bullets over the years and that's fine with me, as i like to see an exit wound on anything i shoot.

BTW, in my 7mm, i use 140 grain bullets for deer, and that seems to be the right weight for deer sized game, especially with a broad side lung shot. The problem with the 7 mag is, if the deer is too close most lighter bullets over expand, and heavier bullets don't expand enough. (on light game like a deer)

This is all the more reason to use a bullet that has a soft nose, and rear protion that will drive on through!!

swampdog_ 12-21-2003 09:09 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I shoot the 7 MM Mag almost exclusively (for whitetail).I also load my own in all calibers.My best in the 7 for whitetails is the 140 gr. nosler ballistic tip.I have had some over expansion.But I have always had a unmistakable blood trail.Shot one at a semi-bad angle the other day and took off the whole shoulder.

Tikka 300 12-21-2003 10:00 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Reminds me of my grandfathers saying, "burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me".

Quilly 12-22-2003 03:57 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
jag mag man..

you are the first person that this year had the problem. as i posted before on another site. gentleman shot a doe at 25yds and the deer ran 200yds with little sign on a double lung shot. he was using rem core-lokt's..
my opinion would be using a caliber like that where shots are that close. i would go with a premium bullet or something that would expand but not blow up on impact.
but then again i do not own a magnum so i cannot help you any further.

grizzly1 12-22-2003 04:46 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Ballistic tips par none! I shoot a 30-06 with 165 gr bt. As akbound said here in Pa if it doesnt fall where it stands the guy in your hip pocket will tag it.I can honestly say in 20 yrs of hunting i have not had one deer go more than two jumps that were hit with the 06.I'll sacrifice some meat for a quick kill.
I use 170 gr cl in the 30-30 and they work good but in my opinion not as well as a bt.Have no exp with the 7mm but would have to say.........BT







When in doubt......double tap

Stone Cold 12-22-2003 09:53 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Drilling-Man,

You need to read the posts about the Nosler Partition and see all the people that are not having pass throughs at close range......Granted the caliber may be the problem at close range but I have two seven mags......Rem Mag and a Rum Ultra Mag.......I shoot nothing but the Hornady BTSP and let me tell you....I have never had that kind of problem whether it is 10 yards or 300......I always have the right damage and blood trail......Now load the Nosler Partition and 50% of the time....I do not have a pass through......

savage.308 12-22-2003 11:08 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
Barnes XLC bullets in factory loads (Federal, PMC,Black Hills) if you don't handload. One shot kills dropping on the spot the norm and you don't end up with mostly bloodied meat. They are all I shoot anymore.;)

PABuck_HNTR 12-22-2003 04:46 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I've used Core Lokts in 30-30 and 270 and 30-06 and have NEVER lost a deer because of bad performance from the bullet. They have always worked for me.

rcw280 12-22-2003 04:52 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
My dad has used core loct in his 30-06 for as long as I can remember and never had problems close up or far away. I have also used them in my 280 with no problems but prefer the ballistic tip.

121553 12-22-2003 09:52 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I like useing the corelokts from my 700 Rem. 30-06. The elk and Deer I dropped this year didn't go 50 yrds haveing the lungs and heart blown out and I like the groups I get in shooting corelokts as opposed to Noslers, but both are great bullets, but don't expect a good bullet to compensate for your sorry shot elsewhere. Bobby;)

bigcountry 12-22-2003 10:38 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
For that gun, I would definately perfer a partition. I have killed the majority of deer with coreloks but in teh last 5 years I quit. I did notice small exit wounds when I used them. I still yet have found the golfball exit would i am looking for.

James B 12-22-2003 11:03 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I have never had any trouble with the corlokt. In any caliber. However if you drive them to fast they may be over expanding which will cause them to not penetrate. In the Mag you might need a bullet with slower expansion. Try the Barnes X bullet.

Drilling-Man 12-23-2003 03:56 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
One thing i'd like to add to this thread, and my previous post is, i have NOT bought any Nosler bullets in over 10 years. When i found something that would work, i bought a good supply, and i'll not run out any time soon!

My comment on "how they work for me" is for the 10+ year old ones i'm still shooting, NOT what's being sold today. Perhaps they've changed them some???

BTW, i also have some VERY old ones that have the lathe turn mid section, (in several cals) and i've always considered them more fragile than the "newer" style.

mharrisatuwg 12-23-2003 09:41 PM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
I use core lokts in my 7mm mag. I also use 150 grain bullet. I have not had a problem with them. I used to use Winchester Super X, but the past two seasons I have used the core-lokts, and have had good luck with them. I did have a double lung shot on one last year that knocked the lung out of the back of it, and there was not much blood. The deer ran for 20 yds, and very little blood. I just think that sometimes lung shots do not produce a lot of blood.

Quilly 12-24-2003 03:36 AM

RE: Core-Loct fails me again!
 
fight4yourguns..

i think it would be more with a higher velocity caliber like a magnum using a non premium bullet. might tend to have problems than using a premium bullet.

Mystro 12-24-2003 11:58 AM

hey work great with a 30cal. but
 
I have owned a Sako 7mm mag and the two deers I did shoot with it ran farther than they should have with good shots. I also hunt with a die-hard 7mm buddy that has never knocked down a deer ever with his 7mm mag. I hunted with a 30-06 before I got my 7mm-mag and always dropped the deer in their tracks. After two deers with the 7mm-mag I switched to a 300 Win Mag and it dumps deer quicker than anyother deer-rifle I have ever seen.
I use 180gr core-locks and winchester power points. The latest monster buck I shot was a 9-pointer that weighed 210lbs. I shot him in the neck and the bullet was found in its lower back after destroying the neck and spine. It also knocked both antlers off. When the deer was shot, it flipping the deer backwards in its tracks. (Pictures and story at www.pabucks.com under "where did the antlers go?") I am a 30cal believer.

skeeter 7MM 12-24-2003 12:43 PM

RE: hey work great with a 30cal. but
 
Mystro, I have dropped them in their tracks with my 7 Rem mag ( 2 bucks weighing in at or over 300lbs on the hoof, 1 average sized buck & doe, Calf moose) Of the ones that mustered any distance they were found in less than 50 yards and were mostly a direct result of the shot(placement/distance). So while you and your pal haven't witnessed it, I can tell you a 7 rem mag can drop them flat. I certainly can tell you I have seen them drop from a lot of calibers and run seemily dead on their feet from a lot of calibers as well. Not saying your 300 winnies isn't packed full of wump but the comment of .30 over .284 don't float with me in regards to dropping an animal in its tracks, many other factors to consider.

Mystro 12-24-2003 01:49 PM

Agreed skeeter.
 
Its my own personal experiences with the 7mm-mag. I like guns so you know how it is as a hunter. If a gun doesnt do what you think it should do in the woods, Time to try somthing different. I got tired o hearing how everones old 30-06 is puttin em down quicker than my 7mm Magnum. I got sucked into their "Macho Head games". Having the 9-pointers antlers fall off shut em up.

stubblejumper 12-24-2003 03:09 PM

RE: Agreed skeeter.
 
If you aren't able to drop deer quickly with a 7mmremmag you need help with shot placement or bullet selection not a larger bullet.I use 140gr ballistic tips in my 7mmstws and of about 20 of our large bodied canadian deer killed none has made it 50 yards with most dropping on the spot or within a few steps.

PABuck_HNTR 12-25-2003 04:21 PM

RE: Agreed skeeter.
 

think it would be more with a higher velocity caliber like a magnum using a non premium bullet. might tend to have problems than using a premium bullet
I wouldn't know about the magnums, I just think they are overkill for deer. Just my opinion though. I know alot of you guys like them. And there are also guys who think Bigger is Better no matter what they're hunting.

ir655 12-25-2003 07:01 PM

Hmmm
 
That is strange. I use 150gr BT Federal Premium's. I have shot 3 bucks this year and they all dropped in their tracks, 1 being a neck shot at 40 yards, the second @ 100 yards double lung penetration. And the 3rd one @ around 250 yards slight quartering shot away from me. The Federal Premium's are expensive, but so far it's been "1 bullet 1 kill shot for me" with this ammo.:)


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