Strongest Action.
 

I have been toying with the Idea of one last custom rifle. I have had a few made up mostly on the 700 Remington action because I used LH bolts. I have sort of gone back to shooting right hand bolts though I still have to shoot left handed. (NO right eye). With the bad left shoulder I can use the right hand as well as I can the LH. I have access to a couple of Mauser 98 actions. Whats your expierence or opinion on useing one of these VS one of the good commerial actions? I am considering the 338-06 or 6.5-06. Its going to have a 26 inch barrel. Of that I am sure

RE: Strongest Action.
 

ive heard mauser actions are the strongest.....but thats just what i heard...i have no proof.....but when i was thinking of building a rifle i was going with a mauser action.....i love my mauser...its only a 3006 though....i put a few rounds through it in the few years and its always worked wonderfully.....good luck......i doubt you can go wrong with any action out there unless you do some major pounding on them and such....

RE: Strongest Action.
 

James, to the issue of strongest action.....I'd guess a tie between Remington 700 and the Savage bolt action. However the Winchester M-70 push feed, Sako, A-Bolt, and Howa are also very strong.....

Actions with claw extractors are also strong until we rupture a case. The claw extractor is not a positive feature at that time!!!!

The Remington 700 (and others that fully enclose the case head) will tolerate many reloading mistakes and will hold enounormous pressures and not let gas into your face!!!

The mauser 98 is a fine action and has been used forever as a basis for sporters. However in the end you still have a '98 Mauser and resale goes to pot unless an extremely beautiful job is done. Many people want their dangerous game rifles on the mauser.

I've built several customs on Mausers and won't ever again....it's actually less costly to start with a M-700, or a M-70 or even a commercial mauser and in the end a good resale is possible.

Either of the .338 or .338-06 are superb choices and it depends on the action you find as a donor.

Best of luck.....have a ball.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Vapordog, what material do you base your claims? Just curious. I really can't say what is stronger. I just know I haven't had a failure from a 700 or m70 or mauser 98 action. I do know what I do like. I like a three lug design like on weatherby or browning, but i hate the safety on the browning. I don't mind push feed so much as long as it has a nice sako type extractor. I like a three positions safety also. But you really can't find an action with everything. Just curious on what criteria you base your statement on.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Big country....I've been building rifles from .222 to .375 H&H for many years.....and I too have asked that question....back in the '60's (as I recall) Roy Weatherby did extensive tests when he bought out his markV rifle. It was his intent to have a rifle strong enough to stand up to his very high intensity cartridges...he destroyed mauser actions with loads that was successfully held in his action and he also tested many other actions to get ideas on how best to design his new rifle.

P O Ackley also performed "blow up" tests...however mostly on military actions that he wanted to sporterize. It was from his testing that the extreme strength of the Japanese Arisaka came to light.....he also pointed out the superiority of the P-17 enfield.

H P White Labratories was also commissioned to do testing on actions for various reasons.....sorry, I have no website to direct you to...much of my post is from memory and a long ways back.

I've also had personal experience and did some (non scientific) testing on my own. I wanted to know how reliable the '98 Mauser was...they have been so cheap and I wanted to use them...... I had a pair of .257 Roberts, one in a 700 Rem and one in a M-98 mauser. A load that caused the case in the 700 remington to have a enlarged primer pocket of .023 actually took the mauser apart...and I mean in several pieces. Wow!!

I had to beat the bolt handle open on the Remington and get this...the headstamp ".257 Rob" was visible on the bolt face!!!!...FACT!!

Accidently one day I had a .220 Swift case freeze my M-70 push feed and I had to remove the barrel to get the action open. The case had extruded into the extractor cut and pushed the extractor to the inside wall of the receiver ring which stopped the brass from bursting.....This kind of failure will destroy a gun with a claw extractor because there's nothing to stop the rupture.

So, lets rephrase this.....all modern actions (including the '98 Mauser) are strong enough for most all todays loads that can be fed thru them. But the process of retaining the case sufficiently to hold in the pressures that can rupture a case is totally another story.

At the time, the tests I read about said the Rem 700 and the Savage 110 did this the best...As I recall this was before Winchester's push feed and Browning was still using commercial FN actions for their guns.

If someone has a website to show data I'd be happy to visit it and enjoy reading it. Until then I'll put a Rem 700 up against even a weatherby mark V for strength and I'll make major bets on it compared to any rifle with a claw extractor.

Massive locking lugs are one thing.....controling a case eruption is a totally different thing.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

vapordog,

Years ago, i also did some small scale test, and came up with the same results as you did. The Remington is a very strong action. It's just plain a better design (for strength) over a mauser style.

One thing that showed up in actions with a lot of locking lugs, was that it's a rare case that all the lugs are locking equally! Almost always, 2 or 3 are doing all the work. That hurts accuracy and strength both. It takes a lot of "lapping" of the lugs to get them right!

When i was putting together rifles, Remington 700 actions were what i used, because of there strength, and also because they are easiest to get the best possible accuracy out of! That "round bottom" is just so much easier to "bed" properly!

RE: Strongest Action.
 

This was not a test ,But a reloading accident.I had a Savage 110 in .270 win.Somehow I let go of a round that blew out the ejector and some other assorted parts from the bolt. Like vapodog said I had to beat the bolt open with a nylon hammer Then use a rod and the same hammer to get the brass out .It glued the primer to the bolt face.( I guess I am still lucky to have all MY parts.)After a package from Savage customer service the 110 was back in shooting order .It did not cycle reloads anymore but the factory stuff did just fine.


BTW ............Vapodog ,You have gotten me scared about my C.R.F. winchester now.I am getting 3350 F.P.S. with a 140 gr. nosler ballistic tip , 26" bbl. in 7 MM Rem. Mag.I have yet to see any pressure signs.If anything happened to it like happened to the savage it sounds like I ain't going to like it ....LOL

RE: Strongest Action.
 

This is an interesting subject. I am getting ready to have a local gunsmith start a custom gun on either the VZ 24 that I have or the 98/22 that I will be getting in a couple of weeks. I am planning to have it chambered for .257 Roberts. Will this be a good idea or should I use a different action? Or should I be fine as long as I am careful with my handloads? This topic made me think a little bit.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

You have "nothing" to worry about when useing any of the modern actions of today. The origional question asked what was the strongest action, that doesn't mean that all the others discussed aren't "strong enough".

"If" you have a modern action in good condition that you like, USE IT!!!!

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Thanks Drilling-Man,My old win. is probally so worn that it wont even build up pressure.....LOL Seriously though .Does the claw extractor really make that much difference?

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Vapodog, I didn't realize you were a very knowledgeable gunsmith building guns for yourself. It was just a couple years ago you were asking simple bedding and reloading questions. You must have really learned quite a bit in the last few years. As I have. Good to hear your a gunsmith.

I have had case separations from loading too many times. Never saw a claw extractor or any gun have a action fall apart from it. I understand the quesiton was strongest action, but if building a custom, action strength of modern actions is a moot point. I would look for features you require instead.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Boy this is getting real interesting...are we looking at gas handling as well as strength or just strength ? I want both in an action . And hopefully we are comparing just Factory Rifles because there are plenty of custom and semi-customs that no one mentioned.

After owning a few mausers and talking to just a few gunsmiths I would not rate it as an extremely strong action, in my opinion it has more negatives then positives so I won't build another one again. In no particular order I would list them as follows:

Remington ...
Ruger
Winchester
Sako
Weatherby
Savage ? don't know enough about them

RE: Strongest Action.
 

How about the Dakota or Arnold Arms actions?

RE: Strongest Action.
 

I'm glad that the P-17 Enfield was mentioned. I have read several good articles about the strength of this action. I owned one in 30-06 at one time, now I have one that was re-barreled for 300 WM and I have one that is all original (30-06). The problem with the 30-06 is that the barrel is comepletely rust pitted. I had it given to me because it is "un-shootable."

I have dreams of having a custom rifle made from this action. Just not sure which caliber. I have a .308, and 300 WM, so maybe a .338?

RE: Strongest Action.
 

swampdog

In my opinion NO. There may be advantages to a claw extractor for some people, but i've hunted extensively from Dall sheep in the Brooks Range (Alaska) , to the Alaska Peninsula and all over in between, sometimes for weeks at a time. (mostly with Rem. 700 actions) Over all those years of hunting i've "never" seen even one advantage of an claw extractor. I've "never" had a "non" claw extractor action pull off a case, or not function in the field, or fail to feed the cartridge into the chamber.

For me, it's a "non issue", i would not hesitate to use either style of action to build myself a new rifle. Use what ever style makes you happy!

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Mainehunt, Is your P-17 a Winchester or Remington.....or do you have an Eddystone?

The things that have to be done to a P-17 to create a nice sporter is enormous and unless you can do most of the work yourself it's beastly expensive. If you have an Eddystone, I'd advise either trading it or possibly rebarreling it in the same case size as the .30-06.

If you have a Winchester or Remington, it can be converted to .375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag, even .458 Lott. However you could likely buy a new M-70 in any of these calibers for less than the cost of converting the Enfield.

I doubt seriously if I could get $500 for my enfield converted to .375 H&H.....Even though it's a beautiful rifle and shoots very well.

In any case if you do decide to go ahead with the conversion, I strongly recommend you get the foreward ring of the action Magnafluxed to check for cracks.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

I may check on Dakota actions. I have an older 700 Remongton that may be a good candidate for the job.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

James B,The long and short actions by Dakota are $1850.The Magnum actions are $2000.(These prices are from Brownells)

RE: Strongest Action.
 

It seems today's most popular actions are the MRC (Montana Rifle Company) and CZ.

The MRC is a M-70 style that handles up to .458 Lott and the CZ is a Mauser derivitive that can handle up to the .416 Rigby. Prices are under $500 for each.

The MRC I have right now is a very nice action for the money, however a trifle heavy, which is fine for the heavy recoiling arms. The CZ is on order and so I haven't seen it yet.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

For me the Dakotas would be out. I will be checking into the others.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

James, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a Mauser 98 for the .338-06 or the 6.5-06...it'll work fine.

I have guns with claw extractors in .25-06, .264 Mag, 7MM Mag, .300 Mag, .338 Mag and .375 H&H and am not at all concerned about safety with them.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

IF PROPERLY HEAT-TREATED, the Mauser makes a better custom rifle than any of the commercial ones. My next choice after a good M98 would be a CRF M70 Win. action, preferably a pre-64 vintage one, or one of the newly made similar ones like the Montana actions now available.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

There is absolutely NO reason to NOT use one of your Mausers for a .257 Roberts!!

RE: Strongest Action.
 

Here's a .500 Jeffery on a Mauser 98.........it's a very fine custom take down and isn't the type of gun found in most closets.....
NO! I didn't build it...nor would I....But it attests to the enourmous strength of the '98 Mauser.

RE: Strongest Action.
 

The Weatherby Mark 5 and Champlin are the two strongest actions I have ever read about.
The Lazzeroni Sp. ? is one of the strongest modern actions.
The Weatherby has withstood chamber pressures close to 200,000 psi
I couldn't care less really as I prefer a claw extractor to a strong action with a puny extractor like the Remington. JMO ;)


Sag.