is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

im still trying to decide between the 300 win mag and the 300wsm please help....

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

No experience with either but I' m going to be getting a 7mm mag here right quick. I' m sticking with the tried tested and true 7mm REM mag. The shells are cheaped that the new wsm' s are. Also I like the looks of a longer cartridge. And I don' t know for sure but those fatter ones might restrict how many your mag. will hold.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

If you are a fan of hype and dishonest advertising campains then the 300 WSM is probably the best thing since sliced bread. If you live in the real world and trust a proven track record then the 300 Win Mag is the way to go.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Ditto !

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Hi rob2974,

If my plans included really heavy and/or dangerous game I would choose the .300 Winchester Magnum, (if my choice was between it and the short .300' s). Both it and the Weatherby version do a much better job with bullets heavier than 180 grains. The 200 grain Nosler Partition, for example, not only has as flat a trajectory at really long range as the lighter 180' s....but it will also out penetrate any lighter bullet of similar construction. And carry more energy with it as well. The new " short" magnums are very efficient in their use of powder and get it done with a little less barrel length. But the larger magnum cases most decidely handle the truly heavy bullets better. And a " full size" .300 with a good, heavy, bullet acts more like a medium magnum....(ie. the .338 Winchester Magnum or .340 Weatherby Magnums).

On truly " heavy" game....it does make a difference!

Good luck with your decision!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Personally, I think the .300 WSM is superfluous at minimum, pointless at worst. The short, fat case is a good idea and may be a bit more accurate than longer caes, but if you need something the size of a .300 mag then you really do want all the capacity for both powder and long bullets that you can get.

That being said, I think short mags in 7mm or less make great possibilities, with numbers from 6mm - .277 being ideal. I' d love to see .25 cal or 6.5mm short mags...if we had those cartridges, deer hunters could put away their cannon and still be able to tote a sensible " Magnum" around the woods.


_____________________________

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RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

I purchased a Winchester SS Model 70 in the 300 WSM two years ago. Since that time, I have taken 2 elk with the gun. Both one shot kills, using 180 gr Win Fail Safe bullets. The gun is very accurate (touches 2 of 3 bullets at 200 yds although I did add a custom HS Precision stock with the action glass bedded for additional accuracy), the recoil is a little worse that my 30-06, and I like the shorter action. I have used 300 Mags, with no complaints, but I prefer the WSM. Will the tried and true 300 win mag kill anything the WSM will? Sure. And the opposite is also true. Just a matter of personal preference.
Good Hunting,
Brother Hal

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Thank you Hal, I can tell you are a true hunter and value your oppion...;)

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Not to sound like an a$$ but you guys crack me up with this tried and true vs. hype and untested stuff. What about the so called tried and true .300 Win. mag when they had the 300 H&H.? It wasn' t so tried and true then was it? Something new and different when it was introduced wasn' t it? How about the ultra mags and the STW' s, Lazzeroni' s (long and short)? They are pretty repetative when compared to each other arent they? But, for some reason folks can' t praise them enough.

Personally I prefer the case design of the short magnums much better than the long belted cases of the " tried and true" cases. If you handload the regular magnum will outperform the short when you get into heavy bullets but it isn' t enough to make any differance to any animal that takes a bullet through the chest. I really feel that the short cases are a much superior design to the old belted cases.

Yes it' s a new case design but remember that everything was new and unproven at one time or another. Even the 30-06.[:o]

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Any of the .300 mags (as well as the .30-06) are fine big game rounds....

Pick one and go hunting friend!!!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

300 Win. Mag. would be my choice. Good luck.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

I think sometimes we are " picking nits" on these threads. Truth of the matter is for 90% of the hunting any American hunter will do on this continent....it doesn' t make a squat of difference if you stick a 150grain .277 caliber bullet through the lungs, a 180 grain .308 caliber bullet through the lungs, or a 210 grain .338 bullet through the lungs. (Or for that matter you fill in the weight and caliber!)

If the velocity is sufficient for you to accurately place " said bullet" through " said lungs" and comparable expansion between " said bullets" occur.....the animal will expire without too much fuss. And in the final analysis any thing more than that...is just that, superfulous.

But hey....this is all about what makes you happy!

Rob2974....pick the cartridge that appeals to you most....I doubt either will dissapoint!

Good luck!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Hey it the american way. The speed limit is 70mph and every automobile will reach that speed so why do we need 200mph Ferrari' s and such? Because we want them, do we need them ? Nope. A Corvette is one awsome machine but A ferrari is a little better, and a Lamborghini is even better. Get my point.
If one rifle has just a little more velocity, is a little more flatt shooting , has little more energy, well we want it. Do we need it prolly not, we just want the best, hey it' s in our nature. God bless america.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Wow, just toss a coin! To be honest pick a gun first and then pick the caliber. I really love my Browning 300 WSM. With a 180 grain premium it'll do all I need from it. However I don't need to shoot 200+ grain bullets from it, I have my 375 H&H for anything big and bad that I can't take with the 300. Yeah, the older 300 mag does work better with those heavy bullets, but we would be just "picking the fly$#!+ out of the pepper" to worry about it. Pick whichever you like better and don't look back, in the real world there isn't enough difference between the two rounds to worry about. However, there is a difference in the rifles they come in so that would be my main concern.

Gordon

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

If I was buying a new 300 Mag. I would buy the Short version. If I already had a 300 Win Mag, I would not trade it in for the short mag. There just is not enough PRACTICLE difference to matter. I would opt for the shorter action if I was starting from scratch. I must add however that I agree with AK Anything from the 270 on up is more than plenty of gun for all North American Big game. IF YOU CAN SHOOT IT WELL.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Hi zrexpilot,

I agree that most of us like to have "the best". But newest, fastest, doesn't always mean the best. There is nothing wrong with wanting a new gun (in a caliber) just for the sake of wanting something different. I do it myself all the time. But the truth of the matter is for the vast majority of the hunting most of us do.....there isn't squat for difference between any of two or three dozens of cartridges....when they hit game!

I enjoy shooting a variety of guns....and have a large variety. They are all fun in there own way. But I can't tell you how many people I have seen that have difficulty shooting even a .30-06 "really well"....only to have them turn around and go purchase something BIGGER. Many people would be better served if they picked a cartridge "just big enough" to get the job done...and spent some time, money, and practice learning to shoot it! A "sufficient" bullet through the lungs will accomplish much more than a "monstrous" bullet through the intestines. And it does indeed boil down exactly like that all too often!

Someone hits their deer poorly with their .30-06 and it doesn't kill well. Next time you see them at the range they have a .300 Magnum (and the newer, larger, ones as well). And of course they sit at the bench to zero their rifle and proceed to flinch, wince, and jerk a half of box down range....pack it up..."that's good enough" and off to the woods on opening day. Next time you see them talking about some new .338 or .375 Ultra T-Rex slayer that they're planning on getting next. Most of them would be better off with a .257 Roberts that they actually can shoot.

But, it is after all.....all about fun and games! And as long as they aren't needlessly wounding and losing game....have at it!

(Before I get inundated....if you have a magnum, any magnum.....and can shoot it. Please by all means use it!)

P.S. And yes...I have, shoot, and hunt with magnums sometimes too!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

akbound, I agree shot placement is EVERYTHING! And that takes practice, bigger and faster is better but only if you can handle it. I wouldn't turn a 16 year old loose with a Ferarri, nor would I recommend a first time hunter get a magnum...but they both have their place as we both agree.

Gordon

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

akbound's last post is some of the greatest wisdom ever to appear on this forum.

His reasoning is why I am so quick to recommend the .257 Roberts to deer hunters, and the .260 Rem and 7mm-08 Rem to all hunters.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Hi GordonGekko,

We both agree that shot placement is the most critical aspect, and we both agree that magnums do indeed have their place. But Africa is full of professional hunters, (many of which have witnessed more animals harvested then many of us will see in an entire lifetime), that would argue the point that "faster is not always better....and frequently too fast is counterproductive".

The projectile needs to be fast enough to have a usable trajectory for the hunting in mind (realistic ranges). And of course speed does translate to kinetic energy. But beyond a threshold speed becomes counterproductive to penetration and wound channel ballistics. And particularly with standard bullet construction. But even premium bullets are strained at extremely high impact velocities, (not to mention wanton waste of edible tissue). So, depending on application, faster is not always better. Sometimes it is....sometimes it's not. And if someone is uncertain enough to need to ask some of the questions I see on the forum.....I try to take that inexperience into account. They may well not have the experience to judiciously apply that information.

When in doubt, (as in need to ask what is best), start a little light....learn to shoot....and work your way up if you feel the need!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

I agree, "horses for courses" as they say. I prefer faster medium bore guns ,because I'm more likely to set up for a longer shot on the game I hunt with them, but if I'm going after something really big I'd want the biggest chunk of lead I could fling at it. And I agree there is the point where bullet construction fails, and that point can cause a serious problem (although bullet construction is usually only a problem in the "Supermagnum" category anymore), but as a general rule more velocity is good up to the point of bullet failure, given the ability to execute good shot placement that is. I was merely trying to point out that the hunter needs to be experience enough to handle their weapon well, and that a novice hunter (and many experienced hunters) do not spend enough time with their weapons to fully realize the potential of a magnum. However, I don't think I've ever spoken to a PH who thought that more velocity was bad as long as the caliber was sufficient for the job (and so was the shooter), the problem comes in when people try press small calibers into large caliber duty just because they have a higher velocity. But, I do know many who whince at the thought of a tenderfoot using a gun they can't handle.

Gordon

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Hi Gordon,

Essentially I believe we are in agreement. Though I have spoken to a number of professionals that believe they would much prefer to see a .375 H&H instead of a .378 Weatherby. Or a .458 Lott or a .416 Rigby to a .460 Weatherby. Simply because they believe from experience that solids penetrate on a straight line best if not push beyond a certain threshold. It is true the additional recoil to a large degree affects many hunter's ability to shoot it well....but that aside they also believe too much velocity actually works against performance. They all agree with your statement do not try to substitute velocity for bore size on truly heavy game! The biggest bug-a-boo though are cartridges that operate at very high chamber pressures....and then have real problems in climates with extreme heat. And this includes many of Weatherby's factory loads, the .416 Remington, and the older loadings of the .458 Winchester (which also like the .416 Remington have at times been factory loaded with too much compression of powder....and literally the bullets start to "walk out of the case" over time. Which really leads to erratic chamber pressures and/or jammed actions when the bullets work out enough to jam the action.)

And of course higher velocity will nearly always translate directly to an increase in blood shot meat. Which I understand is an unavoidable consequence of high velocity bullets when they impact muscle tissue. But in instances where the job can be done efficiently with less velocity...it may then be preferable to do so. Of course like Jack O'Connor once said, "I'd rather lose an extra ten pounds of meat and harvest the deer, than lose the whole d**m thing", or words to that effect!

Dave

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

AK Oh so true.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

I have both of the 300's and since shooting and taking whitetails and elk with the 300WSM it is my first choice. I'm retiring the all of my 300 win mags. Don't really even need them anymore. If your looking for a choice between the two the only advantage that the 300 win mag has is that you can probably find factory bullets in Rifle, Colo. and the WSM's may be a little harder to find. But next year everyone will have the WSM's, so no problem.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

only one thing I disagree with.......why can't a 16 year old have a Ferrari??:D

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Dave,
You are correct we are on the same wavelength here, and I would like to add that it has been great to discuss this issue with you. Sometimes unfortunately people can be so strongly for or against something that they never see the middle ground, and that is often where the truth lies (now that's an interesting statment). Anytime I run across someone as lucid and thoughtful as yourself on a hunting forum it gives me hope that we are headed in the right direction as a community. Oh, and the last quote that you included is one of my personal mantra's, along with "use enough gun".

Gordon

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Well Sir,
I've recently bought a Browning BAR in 300 WSM, and it has a BOSS system to boot! To some of you I'm sure you believe me an idiot. Thats fine, you don't know me but I'll still give a opinion. Now I didn't belief the hype of the Boss system...I never questioned the WSM after I researched the cartridge.

However, I sighted the rifle at 100 yards, and dialed the BOSS system in. The end it shot two three round groups. Each was one hole that you could cover with a dime. This was done with Winchester 150 grain ballistic silvertips.

Now is it the cartridge? The rifle? The scope? I suggest it's a combination of all three. But I'll stir the pot even further and say that this automatic is as accurate as any bolt action rifle out there.

I agree with the person that says if you currently own a 300 Winchester Magnum, there really isn't a reason to buy a Short Magnum other than that you want one. In the Short Magnum line, the 300 was the first and continues to outsell the others. It's well worth a good look if your in the market for a big rifle.

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

IF you want a magnum, get one! If you want a standard cartridge, get one! The 300 WSM is neither fish nor fowl! It CANNOT equal the regular 300 Win. Mag., if that round is loaded to it's full potential. Yes, the 300 WSM will beat the .30/'06, but not by much! I'd definitely choose the .300 Win. Mag., or the .300 Weatherby (even better for BIG game!!)

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

RCD567

After reading some of the drivel written before this i had to jump in here and voice my opinion. I believe you are enjoying the benefits of owning a very accurate rifle matched with an inherently accurate cartridge. I have owned BAR's in other calibers as well as hunt with a group of people that own them . Every last one shoots beautifully and most would shame bolt action rifles with factory ammunition. None of these are handloaded propositions all pretty much use Federal or Hornady Ammo. As far as the 300 wsm goes I have owned 2 of them in bolt guns one a stainless stalker and another Model 70 ss Classic...my beef with the cartridge is that it does not feed smoothly in most bolt guns(not a factor with an Auto ). I handloaded that cartridge with data available at the time and used predominately 180 grain bullets but also dabbled in some 150 grain bullets...All my handloads except with exception of Vihtavouri N550 matched Factory Velocities and were much more accurate and with less felt recoil than a 300 win mag. The 150 grain ballistic tips I used were within 100 fps of factory advertised velocities but I never got to use Magpro in it which is the powder that Winchester used. Now bear in mine I have had/have many 300 win mags and 7 mags and to the last one they can't get anywhere near their supposed factory velocities in a 24" barrel and I won't hunt with a 26" barrel so how are the long mags superior? I just spent almost 50 bucks getting the No 6 manual(s) from Hornady and there isn't a nickels difference between long and short mag worth writing about. Maybe there is something to this short mag thing after all I mean look at PPC cartridges and how efficient they are. I brought this subject up over a year ago here and was subject to ridicule from a bunch of biased shooters that have never owned a short mag never mind shot one. Yeah some factory loaded velocities may have been stretched slightly in the advertising but after all they are marketing something new. I am not that set in my ways that I will not try something new. By the way each of them predicted an early demise to these evil short mags but boys they are here to stay.
P.S. Enjoy that BAR you have a very nice combination there if I run across one at the Gun Store I guess the wife will get over it in a few weeks...

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

Gordon,

Thanks! I know I enjoy these conversations.

I honestly believe if "hunting as we know it today" is to survive it will take a concerted effort from all of us. Hopefully forums like this continue to provide opportunities for us to share information, experiences, and sometimes even "lessons learned". I know in the short period of time I've been on this site I've learned from many of the contributors.

And it is enjoyable and sometimes even "fun" to engage in animated debates about our views. And as you so well stated...if we are to gain anything from these experiences the debaters need to remain openminded.

And I agree with you and "Ruark".....use enough gun.

P.S. I went whitetail hunting today carrying my .350 Remington Magnum, (enough gun.....I think!?!). I know, I know, my .260 Rem......or my .30-06.....or my 8X57.....or my.....(you get the point) could have all got the job done...but my Remington 673 in .350 Rem Magnum is my "newest toy" and begged to go! What's a guy to do?

P.S.S. Yes, it was a great day in the woods. No, I didn't get a shot. But I did see eight doe for certain.....and one or two question marks. Lots of wind, some snow, plenty squirrels, a few grouse....all in all.....a wonderful day!

RE: is the 300wsm a good choice for big game
 

thanks for your imput guys i really appriciate all of your voices.. rob good hunting and be safe