Calhunter
 

Finaly have calmed down enough over your bear pistol thread to post some information that may be informative. I started bear hunting in 1978, wasn't many back then but we hunted hard, we for the most part use dogs, I have been part of seeing many bears taken with alot of different firearms. I stated in your original thread that they were not hard to kill and I hope to explain why I stand by my statements in that thread. Here in wv, we unlikee pa have a 5 week season where we use dogs to hunt bear, we have the option of being a bit more particular of what bears we harvest, we do not line up and drive bear just like most states where they drive deer as they do in pa, running shots are rare but are taken on occasion. When we decide to harvest a bear they are almost always stationary setting in a tree unless we find the males who have an attitude and are reluctaant to climb, then they are dealt with by the most experienced hunters and marksmen in the group. I have as I have stated before taken 14 myself, of which 1 was running, the first hit with a 348 win. 200 gr bullet was not a good hit, the second shot put him down as soon as I could get a clear shot to avoid hitting the dogs. have taken 5 more on the ground which either were bayed up and stationary or just slow walking they were taken with the 348, 280 (2), 6mm rem, and 7mmstw. none of those 5 as much as took a step and 4 of them bounced when they hit the ground and never as much as kicked. I will say if you hit one bad, they seem indestructable. As far as the treed bears, the ranges are close, shooters and rifles are varied. Most of the treed bears are shot by young hunters, have been under the tree assisting with shooters as young as 5 years old, rifles run the gamut from 223's, 243's, 30-30's and the like. if the bullet is placed where it needs to be, the bear is dead when it hits the ground. so maybe this explains why I say they are not hard to kill if you put the bullet where it needs to be. The guys who trapped them back in the 30's used a 22 almost exclusively. This has been my experience.

RR I agree 100% with you. Black bear simply ain't that hard to kill. I haven't taken as many as you, only 5.I had a 6th one get away on me. I shot them with 300WM, 30-06 and .45-70 and 308. But unlike you all but one of mine were moving but I wasn't participating in a drive but they were likely pushed by someone. The ones I recovered either dropped immediately when hit or only traveled a short distance. The one that got away was hit 4 times with the 308 and Rem Core lokts 4 times. First in the gut, the next 2 in the center chest as it was running straight toward me and the 4th behind the left shoulder as he went into the thick laurel. (I could see all the shots as it rained the night before and his coat was soaked. It splashed where he was hit). That bear was killed by another hunter about 200 yards away), BTW that is the reason til this day that I have a bad taste the 308.
But back to the main point - you hit a bear solid in his boiler room he will die pretty quickly.

Thanks to both of you. And yes RR, I agree that the other topic got way off track. I've had similar experience to yours with my 270 on black bear.

In the other topic, I was curious about a pistol's ability for when I'm checking game cameras and also whenever I'm field dressing a critter. In checking the internet on that for black bears only, some seem to think a 10mm is okay, some not. Most seem to think a 41 mag is minimum and everybody seems to agree that a 44 mag is enough. For now, I use a 40 or 45 as that's what I have. In the near future, I'd like to upgrade by a few pistols and am looking at 10, 41 and 44. This would just be for when I am checking game cams or field dressing a critter. For hunting black bear specifically, I'm still using my 270.

would not feel the least bit disadvantaged with a 10 mm, have absolutely hammered whitetails with 180 gr ammo. I stand by my original post, black bears are not hard to kill!

wasn't the caliber it was the bullet, just sayin!

Come on now.... Deadliest mushroom in the woods.

-Jake

could be, I know I don't care for them, to many unexplained failures.

Thanks. this is the kind of experience I was hoping to see.

Yes 10mm should be fine. I watched a show with Razor Dobbs take not 1 but 2 cape buffalo with a 10mm. And they're a lot tougher than blackies.

Do you have a link to that video? That would be amazing to see.

Just go to Youtube and do a search for "cape buffalo with a 10mm handgun).
And RR was correct it was the bullets Razor Dobbs used.

I get guys frequently, asking if a 10mm handgun is adequate for hunting or bear defensive work?

well heres my opinion based on 30years of hunting with various handguns

in my experience a 10mm is about like a 357 mag revolver in power,

a handgun like a 10mm glock is easy to carry and use!

its about ideal as a defensive handgun with human adversaries

its certainly lethal in skilled hands but there are better cartridges if your life depends on rapid kills,

and your using it for close range hunting , or defensive against bears.

yes if you shoot well it will , in well practiced hands with proper loads,

kill almost anything you might hunt!




I've watched the videos , where several guys used a 10mm,to hunt
and I was not very impressed with the 10mm, results!
yes its certainly lethal, but so is a 357 mag or a 41 mag.
yeah a 10mm will kill bears, elk etc.
yes it works, but its no magic death ray!
if you watch carefully the results with a 10mm handgun,
tend to be similar to game hit with archery ,
I/E the game bleeds out internally after a decent hit but it takes time
now I've personally used a 10mm on deer and hogs several times, and it works reasonably well,
but, in my personal experience there's been a significantly better result,
in most cases, while using a 44 mag and 300 grain hard cast bullets
and its certainly not a 445 DWSM or 460 or 500 S&W MAG

https://www.10mm-firearms.com/reload...ta-collection/

https://www.shootersreference.com/re...ington-magnum/

http://www.sixguns.com/range/supermags.htm

https://www.shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/500-smith-wesson-magnum/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/do-you-cast-and-hunt-with-bullets-you-made.6802/

btw bullet weight in grains x velocity x velocity / (divided by)450240 gives energy
you can do the calculations but there's a significant advantage, in heavier cast bullets,
used in the larger mag cartridges

I noticed the same thing when watching those videos and others on YouTube. If I were hunting in Africa with a pistol on animals of that size, I think I'd stick with a 44 mag. But when I compare those animals to the average black bear I might attract while field dressing a buck or run across while checking game cameras, they're 3-4 times bigger and obviously a lot tougher. In my listed situations, I would also be double or triple tapping a bear with a pistol. Just sayin. And if the hide has a few extra holes in it, well, that just means a better hunting story when people ask about the extra holes. :happy0001:

Ridge Runner has it right. Bullet design has to be the most important. You want penetration to stop a bear. Why I said the 10mm would be good for bear is because it is more controllable than a 41 or 44 mag. You could possibly get off 2 or 3 rounds or more with the 10mm. A short 2-4" barreled 41 or 44 mag is quite a handful with full house loads. And a novice would likely only get one shot. I have three 44 mag revolvers; a S&W29, a Taurus Raging Hunter (both with 8 3/8" bbls) and a Taurus light weight (5 shot with 4" bbl). Shooting the bigger ones are no problem but that light weight will beat you up. I rarely use full house loads in it and shoot either reduced loads or 44 spl out of it.

If I was hunting stuff that big, my 375 JDJ would come into play!

over several decades I've, used revolvers and pistols, generally with revolvers, 6"-10" barrel length,
and pistols shorter 4"-5" barrels
Ive used a 357 mag, 45 ACP , 10mm, 41 mag, 44 mag, 454 cassul, 445 DWSM and 500 S&W mag ,
now Ill grant you I rarely try shots over 70-80 yards and while that might be a limitation in many guys minds I can say ,
that generally as the bullet mass and energy increased with cartridge choice so did the effective and immediate noticeable results,
and generally depth of projectile penetration, a 41 mag and larger works very well on deer, a 44 mag is marginal, but still 100% lethal on elk.
I found the 445 DWSM and 44 mag work on everything, and the 500 mag is exceptionally effective,
but of course its heavy, loud , expensive and has to much recoil to be easy to use for many people
even a 45 acp, or 357 mag will kill deer and hogs,
but as always shot placement and a knowledge of game anatomy,is critical to getting fast results.
don't be surprised if game runs, after bullet impact, that does not indicate a bad hit,
handguns don't always drop game in their tracks very often, but they are lethal.
shot placement is critical to getting good results

I used to carry a Ruger Blackhawk in 41 Mag when I was packing out elk and mulies in bear country. I never shot a bear with that pistol but did take a couple of cow elk and mulies with it shooting the Rem factory load with a 210 gr bullet. Based on how it handled the elk I'd say it would be good for bear. More punch than a 357 Mag but easier to control than a 44 Mag. I'd also think that a revolver in 45 Long Colt would be good on bear.