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-   -   My Savage .308 rifle at 2" high at 100 yards... (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/424158-my-savage-308-rifle-2-high-100-yards.html)

ButchA 10-07-2020 12:22 PM

My Savage .308 rifle at 2" high at 100 yards...
 
Deleted....

hunters_life 10-07-2020 11:33 PM

Please correct me if I am wrong here but if that was printed on 8.5" x 11" and in standard PDF then those are 1" grid blocks. With that in mind, thats a pretty spread out group of around 3.5" spread in your 5 shot string. At 100 yards, that is pretty awful. Especially locked in to a rest. I get better than that at 100 yards with my .50 caliber Hawkens with PRB and shooting with a mono pod.

ButchA 10-08-2020 04:45 AM

Deleted...

mrbb 10-08-2020 05:04 AM

I'm sorry if this offends you as well, but if there 1/2 inch blocks,
4 blocks would be an inch square and that group is NOT in a 1 inch square?

and as for hunting its more than acceptable in accuracy,, so NO bash here on saying other wise,
BUT< in all honestly, that is far from an amazing group from a .308 rifle(and NOT all .308 rifles like any load or bullet, they can ALL be different in how they Like or dislike something)

and honestly, most ALL of my .308's will shoot almost 1 hole groups(size of a quarter more or less) with loads they like and if I do my part at a 100 yards and in a locked in rest!
Sub MOA rifles are NOT that un common at a 100 yards these days from, factory rifles and factory ammo!
again, there NOT needed for hunting deer at normal ranges, but just saying,
a group like what your showing , isn't all that super if were being honest here!

ButchA 10-08-2020 05:05 PM

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, guys... Seriously? :nonono2:

Grouping is grouping, no matter what... 1 inch squares, 1/2 inch squares... I shot generic reloads from a gunshow company at 100 yards. I could have taken a {expletive} plain piece of paper with a spray painted bullseye on it, and shot at it from 100 yards. I would have gotten the same pattern, roughly 1" apart.

GET OFF OF ME.... I'M OUTTA HERE... :rant:

elkman30 10-08-2020 06:45 PM

Sounds like you're ready to hunt out to a few hundred yards. Deer don't carry rules or tape measures. :biggrin:

mrbb 10-09-2020 05:56 AM

well sorry your taking our reply's so hard, wasn't meant that way from, me,
but if your going to come on and more or less bragging about a group and then when folks like me and above me, pointed out, that using YOUR squares you had shown, that it did NOT represent a 1 inch group
what do you want us to do, go along with a lie?
and then you even added how great the load you shot was ina 308
and now your saying there generic loads?

I been a accuracy buff/shooter almost all my life , several decades now, so, I KNOW what 1 inch groups look like and what you shown was not one, sorry NOT trying to be offensive, just being honest
I also stated that what you had would be a great deer hunting group,. and nothing wrong with it, other than it didn;'t measure what you said it did!
I again never meant any offence, I was just adding MY opinion to a open post on a forum, with a claim, I found to be wrong?
I gather that if you seen something wrong you too might point it out no??

but if I offended you, I'll say it, , I'm , sorry,
it wasn't my point,
I was just trying to show what I seen and gave accurate info on how I got my size on your target using YOUR info YOU provided!

other wise, , AGAIN, I stated before and will again, your good to go for deer season!

ButchA 10-09-2020 10:40 AM

Yes, I'm taking things serious.... Not just this forum but others, really, REALLY pi$$ed me off...

Excuuuuuuuse me if I'm not capable of knocking a fly off a manure wagon at 500 yards!!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot... you guys all some type of ex-Green Beret military sniper?!? Pffffffftttt... deer, elk, hogs, don't know the difference! Gimme a break.... :rolleye0011:

I just got home (once again) channeling my anger into 4 shots at 100 yards. 2 with a benchrest, with the scope zeroed back down. 2 more with the scope back 4 clicks up (1" high @ 100 yds) and without the benchrest, just propped up on my elbows. Let's see I get torn all apart again, badmouthed, to where I couldn't shoot my way out of a wet paper bag... :s6:


bronko22000 10-09-2020 12:44 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Butch, unlike the others, I really don't care if I offend you or not. But I'm to tell it like it is. You have a rifle there that is a fine rifle for deer hunting. But it is not THAT accurate a rifle. In fact I've owned a few Savage rifles that would easily shoot much better than that off sandbags let alone locked into a solid rest. The pic I attached is the first outing with my Savage Axis in 350 legend after installing a scope. My first shot was wide right. I over adjusted the scope and the next shot went a bit wide left. I then re-adjusted the scope and proceeded to shoot 5 more shots. The hole in the almost center of the bull has 2 bullets through it and the figure 8 shape a little higher and right has 3 bullets in it. That bull is 1.25" in diameter so you're looking at 5 rounds into about 3/4". And just so you know, this isn't the most accurate rifle I own. This is a rifle I just bought earlier this year as a "beater" rifle. And no I don't spend thousands of $$ on custom rifles. I only buy standard production rifles.
So don't go getting all pi$$y at these forum members that have a lot more shooting experience than you have because they don't agree with your "accurate" groups. Besides, 2 shots do not make a group. Shoot several 5 shot groups without adjusting the scope and then you'll see how well your rifle shoots.
Your rifle is plenty accurate for 95% of the hunting the average person does but it isn't spectacular. So just suck up the factual comments Buttercup and live with it.

elkman30 10-09-2020 01:11 PM

I don't remember the original post since you've deleted it but my above post was based on me getting the idea you were shooting a fun rifle or deer rifle and not something you were trying to compete with at 1000+ yards. If I got that wrong, my bad. But, I still think your group is just fine, especially for deer or bear hunting and any coyotes who come into range. Looking at the target posted above, it looks like shots 1 & 2 were your core group about the size of a quarter. Shots 3 & 4 were a little higher with maybe a little bit of wind or shooter movement while shooting. Not bad either way. If you look closer, it looks like shot 3 was some kind of outlier (it happens to everybody at some time). If you add shot 4 to shots 1 & 2, that's still a very good group for multiple shots at a time. Enjoy your rifle and go hunting with it. :happy0001:

ButchA 10-09-2020 01:30 PM

Thank you... I learned a hard lesson about NOT posting up a target, because the so-called "Snipers" come out of the woodwork and pick it all apart, just because the groups don't touch each other at 100 yards. Not just this forum but other forums as well. I made a mistake, got angry over the comments, but have decided to move on and let it go.

I just try to do my best with what I got. A basic .308 deer rifle and that's about it. ...nothing fancy. Straight from the heart: I was so annoyed, all wigged out, etc... that I was going to contact Admin at HNI and have them totally get rid of 7,625 posts going all the way back to Feb of 2003, and finally delete my username account. Yes, *that's* how pi$$ed off I got... :eek2:

mrbb 10-09-2020 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by ButchA (Post 4382017)
Thank you... I learned a hard lesson about NOT posting up a target, because the so-called "Snipers" come out of the woodwork and pick it all apart, just because the groups don't touch each other at 100 yards. Not just this forum but other forums as well. I made a mistake, got angry over the comments, but have decided to move on and let it go.

I just try to do my best with what I got. A basic .308 deer rifle and that's about it. ...nothing fancy. Straight from the heart: I was so annoyed, all wigged out, etc... that I was going to contact Admin at HNI and have them totally get rid of 7,625 posts going all the way back to Feb of 2003, and finally delete my username account. Yes, *that's* how pi$$ed off I got... :eek2:


Originally Posted by ButchA (Post 4382017)
Thank you... I learned a hard lesson about NOT posting up a target, because the so-called "Snipers" come out of the woodwork and pick it all apart, just because the groups don't touch each other at 100 yards. Not just this forum but other forums as well. I made a mistake, got angry over the comments, but have decided to move on and let it go.

I just try to do my best with what I got. A basic .308 deer rifle and that's about it. ...nothing fancy. Straight from the heart: I was so annoyed, all wigged out, etc... that I was going to contact Admin at HNI and have them totally get rid of 7,625 posts going all the way back to Feb of 2003, and finally delete my username account. Yes, *that's* how pi$$ed off I got... :eek2:

well I am not really sure how you can come on here and NAME call folks , claiming some things that they never claimed to be!
WHO claimed to be a sniper?? I never did? WHO you calling one and WHY?

your the one that started a tread about how accurate you felt your rifle was and then stated a 1 inch group, when we showed you that wasn't so!
and then your MAD at US, for calling you out
and you even say this happened on other forums
ever think maybe its YOU that shouldn;t be so light thinned and be trying to claim something that isn;t true??
I never tried to make you feel bad or insult you in any way, but some times saying the truth gets some folks like you feathers ruffled over NOTHING
if your going to post something that isn;t true, what do you think others should JUST agree with you??
HOW would that help anyone!
no one would ever learn anything if they were never corrected when wrong!
and if you cannot handle folks responding to a post YOU made, maybe DON"T start them and not come back name calling cause your feelings got hurt!
even when folks like me, stated I wasn't trying to offend you, and STATED that your group was perfectly FINE for deer hunting!
NO bash or hate meant from me!
but ACCURATE group there NO, NOT even close ! not one to be bragging about anyhow!
I have had groups like that at 500+ yards, as well as smaller one's!
SO, ??
don 't be so soft thinned, life will not be so upsetting to you if you take the bad with the good, and just remember words on a screen are JUST that words on a screen, old saying, so many seem to have forgotten

" Sticks and stones can break my bones but NAMES will never hurt me"

LOL
but words on a screen will get replies, its HOW forums work, both good replies, BAD replies and everything in between!

and groups by MOST folks standards, mean 3 or 5 shots without making ANY adjustments, every time you make an adjustment, you start over with a group!
ONLY time you move /make adjustments and return them is wen your testing to see how accurate the adjustments are! how well it moves to claimed movements and so on!

a 3 shot group is 3 shots ina row from same rest same day same time in a row(or 5 shots or 10 or??)
just saying!

bronko22000 10-09-2020 06:08 PM

Well said mrbb. I'm at the age now and getting so annoyed at anyone that flips out and starts name calling an getting in your face because you disagree with them or prove them wrong and they get offended. This country is getting more and more people that are offended by the slightest thing. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. I will continue to call a spade a spade.

ButchA 10-09-2020 06:37 PM

Oh well, as they say, all good things must come to an end.

Bye everyone... Feb 2003 - Oct 2020... Another longtime veteran of HNI is now gone, and gone for good.



Nomercy448 10-09-2020 07:09 PM

Between the bots and this, Iím not sure whatís worse lately.

CalHunter 10-09-2020 07:30 PM

I think you're ready for deer season. For a factory rifle from the 90's, I'd say you've got a good barrel on that rifle. Bench rest shots show it's a good rifle. Hand held shows you're working it in and would have got your buck with either shot. Also, I like the contrast of the homemade target. Here's hoping this is just a sabbatical and not permanent.

bronko22000 10-10-2020 04:12 AM


Originally Posted by CalHunter (Post 4382034)
I think you're ready for deer season. For a factory rifle from the 90's, I'd say you've got a good barrel on that rifle. Bench rest shots show it's a good rifle. Hand held shows you're working it in and would have got your buck with either shot. Also, I like the contrast of the homemade target. Here's hoping this is just a sabbatical and not permanent.

Cal not a single member here said his rifle was not accurate enough for hunting. In fact we all said it was perfectly fine for hunting. What we did say is by today's standards it is not that accurate. And we also suggested shooting more rounds to form a group. Apparently Butch did not appreciate us telling him the facts and started name calling and such. Sort of sounds like one of our political parties!

Big Uncle 10-10-2020 05:15 AM

Too bad we lost another member for no good reason. He was trying to contribute and everyone has their own standards.

Name calling? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

bronko22000 10-10-2020 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by Big Uncle (Post 4382039)
Too bad we lost another member for no good reason. He was trying to contribute and everyone has their own standards.

Name calling? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

The only reason we may have lost him is because the responders hurt his feelings by stating our opinion and he didn't agree with it.

mrbb 10-10-2020 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Big Uncle (Post 4382039)
Too bad we lost another member for no good reason. He was trying to contribute and everyone has their own standards.

Name calling? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

only one that name called was the OP and NONE of us were harsh on the guy, we just stated what we seen and replied to his post
if he didnl;t weant replies, he maybe should not post, on an open forum, as well, that is again how forums work
you post something, others reply or NOT, and you have no control over what others post!

and if they DON"T like replies, OK< ignore them, DON"T come back on and name call those that did reply and NOT expect the folks he is labeling with a name, won;t reply again back

NONE of us (as I gather I was one of them he was offended by) tried to offend him all we did was state what we seen and gave him a feedback on his claims group size, other wise we all said it wasn't a bad group, or any ill intentions towards him or his hunting, or him being a member here
and apparently he felt offended on OTHER forums when others replied to his post, so apparently, he has some thin skin or doesn't understand how forums work!

but that doesn't stop us MEMBERS here from having the right to reply to a post! with an honest repose to a claim we seen as being false
if he so wishes to leave, that;s on him, nothing I said or IMO anyone said, was mean or harsh in any way!
and IMO a responsible member doesn't let false claims go unchecked, doesn't do anyone any good in the long run
we can ALL be wrong at times and that's normal, too, but we all don;t run off worked up due to someone disagreeing with a claim we make, or forums wouldn;t last very long ! NO??
after all I guess your disagreeing with me and me you, yet MY feelings are not hurt, nor am I planning to leave the forum , and gather neither are you??
this is just conversation no? not a argument or bashing either by the way!

Big Uncle 10-10-2020 02:27 PM

mrbb - I do not recall you calling anyone names, so the glass houses comment was not for you. I agree that name calling is inappropriate. I did my time in the Army many years ago and would certainly not like anyone to make reference to me as a sniper.

The original post did seem to have some incorrect statements but some of the responses to it did seem unnecessarily rough. Oh well, it is only messages from strangers on an internet board so it is no big deal.

bronko22000 10-10-2020 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by Big Uncle (Post 4382052)
mrbb - I do not recall you calling anyone names, so the glass houses comment was not for you. I agree that name calling is inappropriate. I did my time in the Army many years ago and would certainly not like anyone to make reference to me as a sniper.

The original post did seem to have some incorrect statements but some of the responses to it did seem unnecessarily rough. Oh well, it is only messages from strangers on an internet board so it is no big deal.

I sure hope the glass house comment wasn't meant for me either. I know I wasn't rude. I did say I didn't care if I offended him or not but I will continue to call a spade a spade. In other words I will tell someone when they are not correct. And if they get offended and get all pi$$y about it so be it.

hunters_life 10-10-2020 05:06 PM

Well I just got on here and saw I may have started a small riot with a basic truth. My apologies if I inadvertently hurt someones feelings with an observation. He's calling that a 1 inch group when it is more than obvious that it is 3.5 or more and sorry but for a decent .308 locked in to a fixed bench rest as he stated that would be a pretty bad group. I'm no sniper but I was raised and taught by one of the best. I know a good group when I see one and that wasn't one. Sorry if the truth makes one want to leave the site.

bronko22000 10-10-2020 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by hunters_life (Post 4382057)
Well I just got on here and saw I may have started a small riot with a basic truth. My apologies if I inadvertently hurt someones feelings with an observation. He's calling that a 1 inch group when it is more than obvious that it is 3.5 or more and sorry but for a decent .308 locked in to a fixed bench rest as he stated that would be a pretty bad group. I'm no sniper but I was raised and taught by one of the best. I know a good group when I see one and that wasn't one. Sorry if the truth makes one want to leave the site.

WELL WAY TO GO HL! Now Butch took his ball and went home and we have no one to play with! LOL

hunters_life 10-11-2020 01:04 PM

Well shucks. Guess it's a good thing I make my own balls. Oh wait, this isn't the black powder section so some may not get that.

elkman30 10-11-2020 09:10 PM

Just spitballing here but post # 8 is a bit confusing as it sounds like there may be 2 separate groups with 2 different shooting positions, etc. If that's correct, both groups seem to do well on elevation and the difference is in windage. If the tight group (shots 1 & 2) is from some type of rest and the looser group (shots 3 & 4) are not, it kind of explains some of the windage differences which may be due to shooter variations instead of the rifle or scope.

MudderChuck 10-11-2020 10:08 PM

I've got one rifle I doubt anybody could get much better than a four-inch group with it. I have another rifle that on a good day I can clover leaf.
I periodically have to review the basics, one bad habit I occasionally have is my eye distance from the scope, I sometimes creep up too close where my zero is with around a two-inch eye relief.
I sure as heck didn't start out out as a decent shot, it was a process. A little encouragement and some help from a coach/mentor really improved my shooting.
I don't really believe in five shot groups, few hunting situations need five accurate shots. Three shot groups are plenty with a little cool off time between shots. Reality is the first shot out of a rifle when hunting is the one that counts. Picking up a cold rifle and putting the first shot in the black is what it is all about.
I'm also old as dirt and sometimes get tremors, I do the best I can with what I've got.
I have one rifle the trigger never breaks in the same place twice, I've learned to deal with it,

elkman30 10-11-2020 11:14 PM

Pretty much all of my hunting is less than 400 yards and a majority of it less than 200 yards. 3 or 5 shot groups are nice to adjust your scope but at that range, it's the first shot that needs to be accurate. anything after that would normally be at a running animal which I don't take.

bronko22000 10-12-2020 05:29 AM

What I've found, as I'm sure many of you have, is that every one of my centerfire rifles shoot best on a fouled barrel. That is why I take my rifle(s) of choice out a day or two before and take a couple shots just to foul the barrel and to verify POI. Then they don't get cleaned until after the season barring inclement weather.
Edit: My exception to this is my black powder rifles. I make sure the first shot from a clean barrel is spot on.

Ericict 10-12-2020 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by elkman30 (Post 4382149)
Pretty much all of my hunting is less than 400 yards and a majority of it less than 200 yards. 3 or 5 shot groups are nice to adjust your scope but at that range, it's the first shot that needs to be accurate. anything after that would normally be at a running animal which I don't take.

The same here. Iíve taken deer at 600+ and our local range is 600, but by and far, most are under 200. Once itís sighted in, I take it out twice in the morning. One shot is all I shoot each time, looking for it to be on target. I want to know itís repeatable when itís cold, because that is a true condition during a hunt.


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