Which 300 win mag should I get?
 

Which gun and which optic? It will be for elk. I am hoping to get long range options opened up by this purchase. I am looking for a total of about $1,000 or less.

Long range 300wm for $1000 total....

Personally, I’d reserve $500-600, if not $700 of that for the scope, then buy whatever low cost Rem 700, Ruger American, Savage 110/112, you can find, knowing it can be blocked, bedded, and free floated and some inexpensive trigger work done to achieve sub-MOA with it. The scope would be the most important part, for me.

I agree, going to hard to buy NEW< a rifle and scope, all the more so if your planning long range work
good rifles will run that and more alone

as for what YOU should buy, this si a personal thing, what I like or someone else may NOT eb what YOU like, or even fit you
every GOOD long standing rifle maker had a range of rifles these days from, higher end one's(more accurate most times) to fancy one's to more economy line ones!

there all fairly decent guns, but some offer better end parts and fitting to justify why the costs are more!
almost ANY rifle today can shoot well when and IF you find the right combo of bullet and powder, ain;t NO rifle made that shoots everything good, no matter the price tag! yes you can get lucky, but every rifle will have ONE load it likes better!

and to LEARN to shoot far is not as simple as buying a rifle and a scope, it takes actual seat time shooting it OFTEN,
don't buy into the marketing that all you have to do is BUY this or that and can shoot FAR,m that's NOT how it works in the real; world and field!
skilled shooters spend a LOT of time and $$$ on practice to be GOOD at things and they do so due to its needed to be consistent at shooting well a far!(30+ yrs of shooting 1,000 + yard matches here, so, I ave some actual experience in this area)

Thanks to both of you. I plan to practice a lot. I just want to start with good stuff, not the one that sets me back. We are teachers, so money is not something we swim in around here. I'm hoping to find that happy balance between a good unit and not using the mortgage to get it.

BTW, what optic would you recommend?

Fitting into this budget, on my 300wm elk rifle, I use a Sig Tango4 4-16x44mm. First focal, Christmas tree reticle, illuminated, clear & bright, tracks well, not oversized but still capable, and enough zoom that I’m comfortable taking the longest of my shots. I have a few of these, and plan for more, as they have become my preferred hunting optic.

OK lets try this, are you trying to BUILD a long range rifle or wanting to BUY one set up already?
as both can be done , as there are ways to BUILD it yourself or with some,help from a smith
and then there is BUYING one set up already!

as if long range is your plans, then having the right set up matters to be honest

YES you can use a plain jane at times to make longer shots , but if your looking to shoot 500+ yards often, then you SHOULD spend the time/money the FIRST time and get something that will work better at things

if BUILDING, you can start off with a USED rifle to get an action, add a better barrel/chamber and then a stock, and from there optic's( can also do trigger work too)

But at a $1000 this gets tricky IMO
and then you want a scope?
GOOD scopes that are proven to hold repeatable zeros from making a LOT of adjustments for LONG range work, tend to cost a BUNCH of cash and they cost what they cost due to there proven to work!

the average hunter never used there scopes adjustments often, and that's why so many can get away with less optic's NOT just glass, but the actual build of the scope's insides!
as most sight in at "X" range and LEAVE things there for yrs and yrs, minus MAYBE some slight adjustments as they change loads or bullet's
so there internals are NOT in as much need as repeated zero holding and accurate adjustments!

something you MAY wish to think about is, looking at USED custom build long range rifles, there are TONS out there typically for sale, from owners that built and NOW want something else or found out the fun of shooting FAR isn;t all it was thought to be, or the costs are higher or??
and many custom rifles DON"T hold the value the owner PAID to have built, as most folks want to have THERE OWN BUILT! and just won't pay much for used one's others had built!(like adding mods to vehicles and such, you seldom get back what you sank into things)
if your NOT willing to go this route, then there are again, factory rifles , more these days than ever, that are targeted at LONG range shooting
about every rifle maker has at LEAST one model, some have many
Savage makes a bunch and are proven to be pretty accurate and a lot of aftermarket items for them!

Rem, has its share of models, as again do many others and the Rem 700 action are about the top of the heap in custom built long range rifles, so NO shortage of aftermarket mods out there for them!

other newer brands have rifles son the market now too, Berger has a very nice one

BUT there going to be at the 1000 dollar mark, MINUS a scope!
SO< pending your ;goals, you maybe need to add more to the budget and save up and , as they say, buy once , cry once!

or really look for a decent used rifle set up as is!, and then work on it from there
MOST folks NEVER wear out a barrel, and the MAIN reason is COSTS to do so!
so buying used, isn;t as bad a thing, that some folks make it out to be!(I had a gun shop and sold close to 20,000 guns based on forms filed on sales, so I have some actual experience in this info)
getting on some long range shooting forums, will get you access to used custom built guns for sale too if your willing to consider them, as are many other gun sale sites, like armslist, guns america and so on!

I know we all live on a budget, so I get this, please don;t think I don't
but just cause one WANTS to pay less , doesn;t mean its always possible, things cost what they do for reasons at times and its NOT just about paying more, most times you get mroe for your $$, and when dealing with LONG range, SMALL details matter even more so!, as its small things that make a miss or a hit at a far distance!

if your looking to stay under 500 yards, about ANY GOOD Factory heavy barrel rifle will work FINE too, once you find what it likes in ammo/bullet/powder!

but once you get farther, again, them small better parts come into play!
shooting far and getting GOOD at it, is NOT a cheap venture!

as for optic's
this all; come's down to how far you want to shoot and HOW often you want to adjust for ranges, are you planning to get into long range shooting matches and be makinga LOT of adjustments based on how targets distances change
or you planning to just shot now and then?
two totally different things and IMO< determine what optic will LAST and work for you!
if you LIKE suggestions, I can offer some, but maybe again, have a look on some of the dedicated LONG range shooting forums and see what other use, and you will see the majority of them are using HIGHER costing name scopes
Nightforce, IMO being at the top of most lists, others, Schmidt Bender, US optic's, Tangent Theta
but al,l of these will have larger price tags but will be the top self of things!

from there you can run down the list of brands like
Leupold in the VX 6 , Zeiss, and others of like name and reputations
as in ALL optic's price sadly reflects quality, and its again the small details in them that make up the costs
as you get into lower costing scopes, the repeatability over TIME(and there adjustments they ALL WEAR OUT if you use often , better ones take LONGER) and again, adjustments tend to NOT be as precise! or consistent!
plenty good enough for folks that sight in and leave mostly, so NOT bashing or saying anyone one needs a SUPER high costing scope here!
but as you use adjustments often, they just DON"T hold up! this is FACT! and not just MY opinion here too!

so a lot again comes down to your planned goals of the set up use of the rifle!

and as for magnification ranges, this many times comes down to personal opinion and how well you see or don'!
as you get HIGHER in magnification you can get start to get into mirage issue's or??
and many folks don;t like using super high powers
the average I would say is some where in the 4-16-4x20 x range, BUT then there are some that like having more , as it can again come down to a personal choice
I have shot 1,000 yards from using OPEN sights, fixed 4 8 or 10 x glass, and used a bunch of different variable power scopes, and have shot using BOTH first plane and second reticles!

for me as I got older and eye sight not what it used to be, I tend to like more power at times, but NOT always, so, I like having adjustable options now more than ever!

I’d recommend strongly against trying to build a long range rifle + optic for $1,000. The market is what it is - $300 for a used rifle, $400 for a Remage type barrel, rent gauges and buy wrenches, buy even cheap rings... you’re only leaving $200 for the optic. I HAVE shot long range with $200 optics, but when a guy has a choice such as this case, it’s wasted frustration. A rifle capable of this task can be had for $300-400 as is, and a scope $500-700 will be far better suited for the task than a $200 “grab what you can” option.

Asking yourself a simple question often yields the correct answer: when you level your rifle to take the bull of a lifetime, would you rather be shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $200 optic or shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $600 optic?

Personally, that answer is simple for me. I know any rack grade factory rifle from the last decade or more can deliver the accuracy I need, but I also know I will be significantly more satisfied with a better quality scope.

And note, for those playing the home game - you’ll see above that I mentioned first focal plane and graduated reticle, but did NOT mention exposed turrets as highlights on the Sig optic. A hunter may prefer to not dial, but will inevitably still NEED to correct for trajectory. A first focal plane optic with a graduated reticle allows precise correction at any zoom without wasted calculation.

Thanks, Gentlemen! Great INFO.

I will shoot often, but not compete. This is an elk rifle. I get the priority of getting GREAT optics and a mid grade rifle over the opposite plan. I will. I just want to not have buyer's remorse.

My elk rifles are relatively light weight and have scopes on them that are very reliable and are good in low light situations. Elk hunting can be rough on scopes. If you think you will need to use the warranty on the scope then it will make poor choice for elk hunting. Second focal plane and uncluttered reticule for me.

My target rifles are relatively heavy and have scopes fitted for the purpose. The stocks are usually different shapes than those of my hunting rifles. Neither the rifles or the scopes are given rough treatment.

Of course a hunting rifle can be used for a bit of target shooting, and a target rifle can be used for a bit of hunting, but it a tall order to make one rifle do both jobs well. For elk a good quality bolt action rifle (new or used) with a Leupold VX-3 CDS can be had for $1,000. That wouldn't be a bad place to start. It is fairly easy to change or upgrade some rifles over time as desired, other rifles can be difficult.

Savage .28 Nosler?

so many options though....
.300 PRC
.300 Wby
.300 Win.Mag.
.300 WSM

The one that says ".338" lol.

:popcorn:

-Jake

How far is "long range" for you? Up to 400 yards? Past 400 yards?

or what about 300 rem ultra mag?
or .338 ultra mag for that matter, but do well on elk and afar!

If I read the OP topic correctly, you're looking for long range elk options in a rifle. Since you're in Wyoming, that might mean up to 400 or even 600 yards. Not a problem with most 300 WM's. I would say buy a reasonable rifle you like and spend around half or more of your budget on a good scope. If you're able to shop some gun stores, you might even find a deal on a used rifle and scope.

Thanks Cal. You nailed it. It's an elk rifle, and I want to shoot up to 600 yards or so. I have looked at used, but nothing yet.

Honestly, I am still a bit undecided about whether or not to buy one, or just invest largely into a scope dedicated to my 30-.06.

We have quite a few members who use a 30-06, many of them for elk hunting. I use a 338 but it's a similar concept. Something big with ballistics that can still reach out and touch a bull.

you can also get an accuracy job done to your current rifle, to help that shoot better, as again when you get past 500 yards small details matter and that includes MOA accuracy
when I first started out shooting 1,000 yard matches I started with a 30-06, was all I had and was young and not much of a budget!
one thing I know for a fact, is NOT all loads that shoot well at 100-200 yards group well at farther distances, so, again, before making any long range shots on live game
please make sure you have the skills and the accuracy at the ranges you will shoot at,
lots of marketing tries to make things look easy and anyone can do it, but there is more to it again, than just buying gear!
and NO bash here, just being honest with suggestions here!

I promise to only take ethical shots, and to practice a lot.

What was your priority in setting up your 30-.06 long distance set up? The drop of the round is very significant. If I can accomplish the shot and keep my gun, I will probably do it.

A 30-06 is enough rifle and a drop compensation scope would take care of the distance issue. You can buy an excellent scope for a fair bit under your total budget. Right now I am a big fan of the VX-5. It is rugged, bright, and priced right.

I'm not trying to discourage you here. But rather give you an idea of what you're looking at and the knowledge you'll need to get ahold of to do it successfully.

You're asking pretty vague questions, which is fine in the beginning. But understand that at 1,000 yards a .30-06 is dropping nearly 400 inches. Yes, I said 400 inches. 30+ feet of drop. This type of shooting requires more than a little kentucky windage. A crosswind could give you 100" of drift. Or more.

You may not be considering that distance. Long range means different things. In my limited experience with the two, out to 400 yards it really doesn't matter. The .300WM starts having a noticeable advantage as you go beyond 400 yards.

So if 400 is your goal the '06 might be a great choice. 600, you'll gain some with the .300wm. Either way you will need to be able to know the distance your shooting (a quality range finder) and be able to dial your scope properly. Neither round will magically get you there. It'll take allot of learning and allot of practice. Allot of rounds down range.

It will be a fun process.

-Jake

when I started shooting 1,000 yards I was close friend with some custom long range rifle builders (Still am) back in the late 80's, scope were not what they are today, nor were rifles , for that matter when playing long distance game!
so, the first thing I had to do was have a custom base made to allow for all that drop, as scopes, even many today just don;'t have that much adjustment in them, so you need a base that adds some!
so for me that was maybe the first mod done to my rem 700 rifle I was using!
and then before even shooting at 1,000 yards it was learning a lot about bullet drop and learning how things on paper turn into the real world!
I was kinda of lucky, that the folks I shot with were also extremely experienced shooters and rifle builders, they took me in under there wing so to speak,
My friends also went on to win many shooting matches and even broke a few records along the yrs!
and also keep in mind that back then, my rifle was set up for a 1,000 yards and wasn't meant to be adjusted for all other ranges, it was a dedicated 1,000 yard rifle
as again scopes back then just didn;t last long when making a LOT of changes to work at different yardages, like many of the scopes today !
I have also worked with rifles in all sorts of calibers from .50 BMG down, and from custom hunting like rifles, to rail guns to some very exotic looking and builds

IMO< the hardest part of shooting far is learning to read wind, and that means winds between you and the target and how many times they can change in between the two things, as wind at where your at, and 500 yards out and then at 800-900 yrds can be different, causing a LOT of issues to a bullets flight!

this is also one of the reasons I stopped hunting with LONG ranges in mind(was part of a long range hunting video series a while back)

just too many things can go wrong to even the best of the best with the best of the best gear!
I also, came to feel shooting animals past say 400 yards or so, is not as much hunting as it is shooting, as most animals never have a clue there being hunted at distance, this is a personal choice and NO bash from me on those that do
But again, I know countless long range folks, seen what happens OFF camera, or is edited out of shows and videos! in the PUSH to sell products/marketing!

But for hunting with the 30-06, IMO, I would also stick to shots under 500 yards for sure, and at this, most all modern rifles can be made to work, with the right optic's and a load/bullet that the gun shoots very well and holds that at distance and not just up close!
there are also better bullets on the market today than ever, but still ain't no magic bullet that bucks wind ! or shoots great in any rifle!

This isn’t 1,000, but it’s as close as I have already in my photo album online. Here, I’m dialed, so holding on my horizontal stadia, but this is 875 yards on a 24” round gong beside two 66% IPSC targets (12” x20” total with 4”x4” heads, so roughly 12”x16” rectangle -ish).

1000yrds with the 300win mag load I hunted the last two years is 7.9 mils elevation and 1.9 mils in a 10mph wind. Visually, that would be placed just above and just inside of the tip of the line marked “8” on my reticle (which is only 286” of drop and 68” of wind drift). For reference, the hashes are 1/2 Mil marks, so a mature buck would stand about 2 hashes tall and be around 3 1/2 hashes long - roughly half of the size of that target rack, height and width.

With this rifle and load, I consider myself ready and able to take a deer/elk/black bear at 600-750 yards without much concern. I’m shooting a couple hundred rounds from this rifle every year, most past 500, and shooting a few thousand rounds with other rifles every year out to 1600 - it’s a perishable skill, but it’s also an attainable skill. ToF does become a factor for 1,000yrd shooting, and frankly, that particular rifle just doesn’t shoot small enough with that load for me to be comfortable taking it past 750 on game, although I HAVE taken it to 1600 yards on that 24” gong and also used this rifle to score on target at 955yards on a 9”x12” head shaped target during a field match last year. Not all wind conditions favor long range shooting, and we never have a shortage of wind in Kansas (sometimes my wind calls are wider than my elevation corrections!), but there do remain to be a lot of days where a skilled shooter can send a bullet over 700 yards after a deer without any moral or ethical dilemma.



Shooting long range is challenging, but I can’t say I find it to be “hard.” If I can do it, anyone can. My son has shot 1-1.5moa targets at 600-800 yards reliably (meaning missing only rarely when dad’s wind call sucked or when he slaps the trigger) since he was 5yrs old. Just a matter of putting the right rifle, scope, and load in front of him. I’ve taken dozens of new shooters out to 800-1,200 yards, several on their first day ever shooting a rifle, always using that 24” gong and 12”x20” 66% IPSC.

It’s not an innate instinct, but it’s not witchcraft or quantum physics either. Buy the rifle, burn a bunch of ammo in practice (or better still, find a class and THEN practice), and live happy.

Carlos Hathcock was a famous Marine sniper during the Vietnam war and he used a 30-06 in a Winchester model 70. I think you should be able to get a good scope for your 30-06, practice a lot and maybe even handload a little to get something that works well up to 600 yards. Since most of your shots will likely be under 400 yards, you should be good to go.

You all are great. I really appreciate the time and input. I just want to harvest an elk. This will be year seven trying for me, and still nothing. Most of the time I see them, they are far away. I have watched others shoot far at them and succeed. I hope to join that crowd.

I am OK with limiting the distance to around 600 yards or so. It is a lot better than my 300 yard limit now. Even that distance is hard for me on my 30-.06, so I usually pass on those shots. I would like to not pass on them anymore.

Let's start with the basics.

What is your current .30-06 set up. What rifle, what scope? Let's see if it's something we can "work with". And how does it shoot. Is it moa? Less? More?

Most hunters would probably say 600 yards is the limit for the .30-06. or maybe even too far for the 06 on elk. 400 is certainly doable without much trouble. I'm talking about energy and performance here.

With either of the two you will have to "learn" to shoot 600 yards. You will have to be able to consistently range your target, and dial your scope.

At 400 I've had good luck using bdc type reticles. With practice, 400 yards was easily doable. I was not able to get consistent hits beyond 400 with it though. So at 600 you'll need to have adjustable turrets or more advanced reticles that I don't have any experience with.

-Jake

again shooting far is a skill and small details matter
but take this without any offence meant, if your struggling at 300 yards with your 30/06, ask yourself this,a d be honest, is it the rifle or the shooter, as the 3006 is more than capable of small groups well past 300 yards

if its the rifle, WHAT is wrong with it it, as MOST things can be fixed to make it shoot better, from having an accuracy job done to it(re crown, true bolt fact, and like wise things to rifle)
as at 300 yards if your sighting in at ONE range and using scope that has different reticles,.for different yardage and NO constantly making scope adjustments once sighted in!
then odds are its NOT the scope that is an issue
which then leaves it being the shooter?,
ALL again can be corrected with what you already have!
which leaves you needing more range time to further develop your shooting skills
and then remember, that shooting off a bench is fine for finding details out on rifle and load, but to shoot well in the field you have to practice in ways you would be hunting and taking shots a field!

as for shooting far NOT being hard or a skill, I say YES and NO<
I can agree I have seen folks that never fired a rifle before shoot things FAR away(we did this with a person on a FIST time hunt FIRST time shooting a high power rifle (she had shot 22's before) on long range hunting Video , at just under 800 yards, she made a one shot kill, dropping deer at this distance)
BUT the rifle was set up by a experienced shooter , the experienced shooter made all needed corrections, for distance, wind and so on, and then , the SHOOTER only had to aim pull the trigger
that DOESN"T make the shooter good at shooting FAR
its what the experienced shooter did that MADE things happen!

and as for if shooting at game far off , is moral or ethical dilemma, based on skills of shooter, again this is a personal thing, as at what range is it hunting and or is it SHOOTING that is the skill being applied here?
NO bash meant, just saying
that for ME< distance does change how I view hunting and shooting and there both different things at times!
we can all miss a animal up close OR far away, but the SMALL details of misses start to get more critical IMO as distance gets out there!!
spend enough time at shooting ranges and you wills see a LOT of BAD shooters(and some great ones)
to maybe make one wonder HOW far some should be considering talking a shot, with right gear or not!

I foresee many trips to the local gun stores looking for that sweet deal on a used 300 mag with a good optic on it in your future.

JMHO but I think you should figure out how to get your 30-06 dialed in enough to shoot out to 400 yards. It's doable. If you need more, then yes, consider upgrading to a 300WM. Since you live in elk country, what distances are you able to get shooting opportunities at?

Perhaps the question should be do you need more than 400 yards.