Which 300 win mag should I get?
10-01-2020, 03:47 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,903
Long range 300wm for $1000 total....
Personally, I’d reserve $500-600, if not $700 of that for the scope, then buy whatever low cost Rem 700, Ruger American, Savage 110/112, you can find, knowing it can be blocked, bedded, and free floated and some inexpensive trigger work done to achieve sub-MOA with it. The scope would be the most important part, for me.
Personally, I’d reserve $500-600, if not $700 of that for the scope, then buy whatever low cost Rem 700, Ruger American, Savage 110/112, you can find, knowing it can be blocked, bedded, and free floated and some inexpensive trigger work done to achieve sub-MOA with it. The scope would be the most important part, for me.
10-01-2020, 04:37 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
I agree, going to hard to buy NEW< a rifle and scope, all the more so if your planning long range work
good rifles will run that and more alone
as for what YOU should buy, this si a personal thing, what I like or someone else may NOT eb what YOU like, or even fit you
every GOOD long standing rifle maker had a range of rifles these days from, higher end one's(more accurate most times) to fancy one's to more economy line ones!
there all fairly decent guns, but some offer better end parts and fitting to justify why the costs are more!
almost ANY rifle today can shoot well when and IF you find the right combo of bullet and powder, ain;t NO rifle made that shoots everything good, no matter the price tag! yes you can get lucky, but every rifle will have ONE load it likes better!
and to LEARN to shoot far is not as simple as buying a rifle and a scope, it takes actual seat time shooting it OFTEN,
don't buy into the marketing that all you have to do is BUY this or that and can shoot FAR,m that's NOT how it works in the real; world and field!
skilled shooters spend a LOT of time and $$$ on practice to be GOOD at things and they do so due to its needed to be consistent at shooting well a far!(30+ yrs of shooting 1,000 + yard matches here, so, I ave some actual experience in this area)
good rifles will run that and more alone
as for what YOU should buy, this si a personal thing, what I like or someone else may NOT eb what YOU like, or even fit you
every GOOD long standing rifle maker had a range of rifles these days from, higher end one's(more accurate most times) to fancy one's to more economy line ones!
there all fairly decent guns, but some offer better end parts and fitting to justify why the costs are more!
almost ANY rifle today can shoot well when and IF you find the right combo of bullet and powder, ain;t NO rifle made that shoots everything good, no matter the price tag! yes you can get lucky, but every rifle will have ONE load it likes better!
and to LEARN to shoot far is not as simple as buying a rifle and a scope, it takes actual seat time shooting it OFTEN,
don't buy into the marketing that all you have to do is BUY this or that and can shoot FAR,m that's NOT how it works in the real; world and field!
skilled shooters spend a LOT of time and $$$ on practice to be GOOD at things and they do so due to its needed to be consistent at shooting well a far!(30+ yrs of shooting 1,000 + yard matches here, so, I ave some actual experience in this area)
10-02-2020, 06:03 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 592
Thanks to both of you. I plan to practice a lot. I just want to start with good stuff, not the one that sets me back. We are teachers, so money is not something we swim in around here. I'm hoping to find that happy balance between a good unit and not using the mortgage to get it.
BTW, what optic would you recommend?
BTW, what optic would you recommend?
10-02-2020, 06:28 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,903
Fitting into this budget, on my 300wm elk rifle, I use a Sig Tango4 4-16x44mm. First focal, Christmas tree reticle, illuminated, clear & bright, tracks well, not oversized but still capable, and enough zoom that I’m comfortable taking the longest of my shots. I have a few of these, and plan for more, as they have become my preferred hunting optic.
10-02-2020, 06:39 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
OK lets try this, are you trying to BUILD a long range rifle or wanting to BUY one set up already?
as both can be done , as there are ways to BUILD it yourself or with some,help from a smith
and then there is BUYING one set up already!
as if long range is your plans, then having the right set up matters to be honest
YES you can use a plain jane at times to make longer shots , but if your looking to shoot 500+ yards often, then you SHOULD spend the time/money the FIRST time and get something that will work better at things
if BUILDING, you can start off with a USED rifle to get an action, add a better barrel/chamber and then a stock, and from there optic's( can also do trigger work too)
But at a $1000 this gets tricky IMO
and then you want a scope?
GOOD scopes that are proven to hold repeatable zeros from making a LOT of adjustments for LONG range work, tend to cost a BUNCH of cash and they cost what they cost due to there proven to work!
the average hunter never used there scopes adjustments often, and that's why so many can get away with less optic's NOT just glass, but the actual build of the scope's insides!
as most sight in at "X" range and LEAVE things there for yrs and yrs, minus MAYBE some slight adjustments as they change loads or bullet's
so there internals are NOT in as much need as repeated zero holding and accurate adjustments!
something you MAY wish to think about is, looking at USED custom build long range rifles, there are TONS out there typically for sale, from owners that built and NOW want something else or found out the fun of shooting FAR isn;t all it was thought to be, or the costs are higher or??
and many custom rifles DON"T hold the value the owner PAID to have built, as most folks want to have THERE OWN BUILT! and just won't pay much for used one's others had built!(like adding mods to vehicles and such, you seldom get back what you sank into things)
if your NOT willing to go this route, then there are again, factory rifles , more these days than ever, that are targeted at LONG range shooting
about every rifle maker has at LEAST one model, some have many
Savage makes a bunch and are proven to be pretty accurate and a lot of aftermarket items for them!
Rem, has its share of models, as again do many others and the Rem 700 action are about the top of the heap in custom built long range rifles, so NO shortage of aftermarket mods out there for them!
other newer brands have rifles son the market now too, Berger has a very nice one
BUT there going to be at the 1000 dollar mark, MINUS a scope!
SO< pending your ;goals, you maybe need to add more to the budget and save up and , as they say, buy once , cry once!
or really look for a decent used rifle set up as is!, and then work on it from there
MOST folks NEVER wear out a barrel, and the MAIN reason is COSTS to do so!
so buying used, isn;t as bad a thing, that some folks make it out to be!(I had a gun shop and sold close to 20,000 guns based on forms filed on sales, so I have some actual experience in this info)
getting on some long range shooting forums, will get you access to used custom built guns for sale too if your willing to consider them, as are many other gun sale sites, like armslist, guns america and so on!
I know we all live on a budget, so I get this, please don;t think I don't
but just cause one WANTS to pay less , doesn;t mean its always possible, things cost what they do for reasons at times and its NOT just about paying more, most times you get mroe for your $$, and when dealing with LONG range, SMALL details matter even more so!, as its small things that make a miss or a hit at a far distance!
if your looking to stay under 500 yards, about ANY GOOD Factory heavy barrel rifle will work FINE too, once you find what it likes in ammo/bullet/powder!
but once you get farther, again, them small better parts come into play!
shooting far and getting GOOD at it, is NOT a cheap venture!
as both can be done , as there are ways to BUILD it yourself or with some,help from a smith
and then there is BUYING one set up already!
as if long range is your plans, then having the right set up matters to be honest
YES you can use a plain jane at times to make longer shots , but if your looking to shoot 500+ yards often, then you SHOULD spend the time/money the FIRST time and get something that will work better at things
if BUILDING, you can start off with a USED rifle to get an action, add a better barrel/chamber and then a stock, and from there optic's( can also do trigger work too)
But at a $1000 this gets tricky IMO
and then you want a scope?
GOOD scopes that are proven to hold repeatable zeros from making a LOT of adjustments for LONG range work, tend to cost a BUNCH of cash and they cost what they cost due to there proven to work!
the average hunter never used there scopes adjustments often, and that's why so many can get away with less optic's NOT just glass, but the actual build of the scope's insides!
as most sight in at "X" range and LEAVE things there for yrs and yrs, minus MAYBE some slight adjustments as they change loads or bullet's
so there internals are NOT in as much need as repeated zero holding and accurate adjustments!
something you MAY wish to think about is, looking at USED custom build long range rifles, there are TONS out there typically for sale, from owners that built and NOW want something else or found out the fun of shooting FAR isn;t all it was thought to be, or the costs are higher or??
and many custom rifles DON"T hold the value the owner PAID to have built, as most folks want to have THERE OWN BUILT! and just won't pay much for used one's others had built!(like adding mods to vehicles and such, you seldom get back what you sank into things)
if your NOT willing to go this route, then there are again, factory rifles , more these days than ever, that are targeted at LONG range shooting
about every rifle maker has at LEAST one model, some have many
Savage makes a bunch and are proven to be pretty accurate and a lot of aftermarket items for them!
Rem, has its share of models, as again do many others and the Rem 700 action are about the top of the heap in custom built long range rifles, so NO shortage of aftermarket mods out there for them!
other newer brands have rifles son the market now too, Berger has a very nice one
BUT there going to be at the 1000 dollar mark, MINUS a scope!
SO< pending your ;goals, you maybe need to add more to the budget and save up and , as they say, buy once , cry once!
or really look for a decent used rifle set up as is!, and then work on it from there
MOST folks NEVER wear out a barrel, and the MAIN reason is COSTS to do so!
so buying used, isn;t as bad a thing, that some folks make it out to be!(I had a gun shop and sold close to 20,000 guns based on forms filed on sales, so I have some actual experience in this info)
getting on some long range shooting forums, will get you access to used custom built guns for sale too if your willing to consider them, as are many other gun sale sites, like armslist, guns america and so on!
I know we all live on a budget, so I get this, please don;t think I don't
but just cause one WANTS to pay less , doesn;t mean its always possible, things cost what they do for reasons at times and its NOT just about paying more, most times you get mroe for your $$, and when dealing with LONG range, SMALL details matter even more so!, as its small things that make a miss or a hit at a far distance!
if your looking to stay under 500 yards, about ANY GOOD Factory heavy barrel rifle will work FINE too, once you find what it likes in ammo/bullet/powder!
but once you get farther, again, them small better parts come into play!
shooting far and getting GOOD at it, is NOT a cheap venture!
10-02-2020, 07:04 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
as for optic's
this all; come's down to how far you want to shoot and HOW often you want to adjust for ranges, are you planning to get into long range shooting matches and be makinga LOT of adjustments based on how targets distances change
or you planning to just shot now and then?
two totally different things and IMO< determine what optic will LAST and work for you!
if you LIKE suggestions, I can offer some, but maybe again, have a look on some of the dedicated LONG range shooting forums and see what other use, and you will see the majority of them are using HIGHER costing name scopes
Nightforce, IMO being at the top of most lists, others, Schmidt Bender, US optic's, Tangent Theta
but al,l of these will have larger price tags but will be the top self of things!
from there you can run down the list of brands like
Leupold in the VX 6 , Zeiss, and others of like name and reputations
as in ALL optic's price sadly reflects quality, and its again the small details in them that make up the costs
as you get into lower costing scopes, the repeatability over TIME(and there adjustments they ALL WEAR OUT if you use often , better ones take LONGER) and again, adjustments tend to NOT be as precise! or consistent!
plenty good enough for folks that sight in and leave mostly, so NOT bashing or saying anyone one needs a SUPER high costing scope here!
but as you use adjustments often, they just DON"T hold up! this is FACT! and not just MY opinion here too!
so a lot again comes down to your planned goals of the set up use of the rifle!
and as for magnification ranges, this many times comes down to personal opinion and how well you see or don'!
as you get HIGHER in magnification you can get start to get into mirage issue's or??
and many folks don;t like using super high powers
the average I would say is some where in the 4-16-4x20 x range, BUT then there are some that like having more , as it can again come down to a personal choice
I have shot 1,000 yards from using OPEN sights, fixed 4 8 or 10 x glass, and used a bunch of different variable power scopes, and have shot using BOTH first plane and second reticles!
for me as I got older and eye sight not what it used to be, I tend to like more power at times, but NOT always, so, I like having adjustable options now more than ever!
this all; come's down to how far you want to shoot and HOW often you want to adjust for ranges, are you planning to get into long range shooting matches and be makinga LOT of adjustments based on how targets distances change
or you planning to just shot now and then?
two totally different things and IMO< determine what optic will LAST and work for you!
if you LIKE suggestions, I can offer some, but maybe again, have a look on some of the dedicated LONG range shooting forums and see what other use, and you will see the majority of them are using HIGHER costing name scopes
Nightforce, IMO being at the top of most lists, others, Schmidt Bender, US optic's, Tangent Theta
but al,l of these will have larger price tags but will be the top self of things!
from there you can run down the list of brands like
Leupold in the VX 6 , Zeiss, and others of like name and reputations
as in ALL optic's price sadly reflects quality, and its again the small details in them that make up the costs
as you get into lower costing scopes, the repeatability over TIME(and there adjustments they ALL WEAR OUT if you use often , better ones take LONGER) and again, adjustments tend to NOT be as precise! or consistent!
plenty good enough for folks that sight in and leave mostly, so NOT bashing or saying anyone one needs a SUPER high costing scope here!
but as you use adjustments often, they just DON"T hold up! this is FACT! and not just MY opinion here too!
so a lot again comes down to your planned goals of the set up use of the rifle!
and as for magnification ranges, this many times comes down to personal opinion and how well you see or don'!
as you get HIGHER in magnification you can get start to get into mirage issue's or??
and many folks don;t like using super high powers
the average I would say is some where in the 4-16-4x20 x range, BUT then there are some that like having more , as it can again come down to a personal choice
I have shot 1,000 yards from using OPEN sights, fixed 4 8 or 10 x glass, and used a bunch of different variable power scopes, and have shot using BOTH first plane and second reticles!
for me as I got older and eye sight not what it used to be, I tend to like more power at times, but NOT always, so, I like having adjustable options now more than ever!
Last edited by mrbb; 10-02-2020 at 07:10 AM.
10-02-2020, 07:16 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,903
I’d recommend strongly against trying to build a long range rifle + optic for $1,000. The market is what it is - $300 for a used rifle, $400 for a Remage type barrel, rent gauges and buy wrenches, buy even cheap rings... you’re only leaving $200 for the optic. I HAVE shot long range with $200 optics, but when a guy has a choice such as this case, it’s wasted frustration. A rifle capable of this task can be had for $300-400 as is, and a scope $500-700 will be far better suited for the task than a $200 “grab what you can” option.
Asking yourself a simple question often yields the correct answer: when you level your rifle to take the bull of a lifetime, would you rather be shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $200 optic or shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $600 optic?
Personally, that answer is simple for me. I know any rack grade factory rifle from the last decade or more can deliver the accuracy I need, but I also know I will be significantly more satisfied with a better quality scope.
And note, for those playing the home game - you’ll see above that I mentioned first focal plane and graduated reticle, but did NOT mention exposed turrets as highlights on the Sig optic. A hunter may prefer to not dial, but will inevitably still NEED to correct for trajectory. A first focal plane optic with a graduated reticle allows precise correction at any zoom without wasted calculation.
Asking yourself a simple question often yields the correct answer: when you level your rifle to take the bull of a lifetime, would you rather be shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $200 optic or shooting a sub-moa rifle with the clarity of a $600 optic?
Personally, that answer is simple for me. I know any rack grade factory rifle from the last decade or more can deliver the accuracy I need, but I also know I will be significantly more satisfied with a better quality scope.
And note, for those playing the home game - you’ll see above that I mentioned first focal plane and graduated reticle, but did NOT mention exposed turrets as highlights on the Sig optic. A hunter may prefer to not dial, but will inevitably still NEED to correct for trajectory. A first focal plane optic with a graduated reticle allows precise correction at any zoom without wasted calculation.
10-02-2020, 08:38 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 592
Thanks, Gentlemen! Great INFO.
I will shoot often, but not compete. This is an elk rifle. I get the priority of getting GREAT optics and a mid grade rifle over the opposite plan. I will. I just want to not have buyer's remorse.
I will shoot often, but not compete. This is an elk rifle. I get the priority of getting GREAT optics and a mid grade rifle over the opposite plan. I will. I just want to not have buyer's remorse.
10-02-2020, 11:14 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
My elk rifles are relatively light weight and have scopes on them that are very reliable and are good in low light situations. Elk hunting can be rough on scopes. If you think you will need to use the warranty on the scope then it will make poor choice for elk hunting. Second focal plane and uncluttered reticule for me.
My target rifles are relatively heavy and have scopes fitted for the purpose. The stocks are usually different shapes than those of my hunting rifles. Neither the rifles or the scopes are given rough treatment.
Of course a hunting rifle can be used for a bit of target shooting, and a target rifle can be used for a bit of hunting, but it a tall order to make one rifle do both jobs well. For elk a good quality bolt action rifle (new or used) with a Leupold VX-3 CDS can be had for $1,000. That wouldn't be a bad place to start. It is fairly easy to change or upgrade some rifles over time as desired, other rifles can be difficult.
My target rifles are relatively heavy and have scopes fitted for the purpose. The stocks are usually different shapes than those of my hunting rifles. Neither the rifles or the scopes are given rough treatment.
Of course a hunting rifle can be used for a bit of target shooting, and a target rifle can be used for a bit of hunting, but it a tall order to make one rifle do both jobs well. For elk a good quality bolt action rifle (new or used) with a Leupold VX-3 CDS can be had for $1,000. That wouldn't be a bad place to start. It is fairly easy to change or upgrade some rifles over time as desired, other rifles can be difficult.