Big Uncle

A couple of days ago I spent the morning on the range. There was only one other shooter who sat at a nearby bench and shot the 100 yard range with his heavy barrel 6.5 C rifle with the obligatory huge target scope. I had never met him before but he was a nice fellow and pleasant company. He shot a total of twelve three-shot groups. He stapled his target close to mine and I could clearly see his target through my spotting scope. He shot fairly well with most groups somewhere around one inch, with some groups around 1.5", and one group that had all three holes touching.

As I was packing my gear to leave the range a third shooter showed up. As he passed by and said hello to the other fellow the "one hole" group was proudly displayed and the claim was made that this rifle and cartridge combination was so good that it would shoot one hole groups consistently. I thought it was pretty funny. A picture of the one hole group is probably already posted on a message board somewhere by now.

mrbb

well that is NOT that un common and worse yet, I have this from some very SO called PRO custom shops
over MY yrs of dealing with and becoming very friendly with many custom rifle builders/smiths
I have spent many hours over the yrs at THERE ranges helping sight in and shoot customers built rifles and seem them FIRST hand shoot several groups, some NOT so great and then a few very nice almost all in one hole groups
and THAT"S always the target they sent away with the rifle

as an extreme example, I ONCE seen a nice 4 shot group be a hole in one deal and the 5 th shot be a flyer, and the MAKER cut the target so the flyer would;t be on the paper when target was sent to customer??

DON"T laugh, this again, happens more than you think!
I can also tell you when I was part of a hunting video series for a few yrs, that a LOT of things in videos were edited out that really happened, from misses to lost game to???
Marketing and PRIDE can make folks do a lot of not so honest things, add $$$ into the mix and it can get even worse!

bronko22000

Well I can honestly say that my Bergara HMR is a real good shooter. My last 5 shot group at 200 yards put 4 shots into 0.44" then the gremlin came in and I pulled one to the left opening up the group to 0.74"! Still at 200 yards I consider that excellent. But it took about 6 months of load development and many hours on the bench to come up with a good accurate and stable load. Rifle was also chambered in 6.5CM and shooting Hornady 143 gr. ELDs.
I still haven't found a place to shoot farther than 300 yards. I'm about to travel to the farmlands and look for a long safe place to shoot and ask a landowner for permission.
I had an old Rem 700 BDL in 270 Win that would shoot 1/2' 5 shot groups pretty often with Nosler BTs. But being the moron I am I sold it a few years back. Angry

Nomercy448

It seems we will never struggle to find either Liars or Haters.

I seem to recall posting a handful of one hole groups, and nearly so groups, here not so long ago, and a certain member was displeased that I had not taken my rifle out of zero to center the groups on the POA, rather than accepting the favor my MagnetoSpeed does by shifting my POI, which leaves my POA intact throughout the string. I have often seen fantastic shooting discarded on some forums as “useless“ because the submitted photo was of only 3-5 shot groups, rather than 10 shot groups. Can’t please everyone, I suppose.

God sent Moses down Sinai with a list, and Lying was on it - so it is often difficult for me to tolerate it from others when I hear it. But if an under-experienced shooter feels better by considering, and even claiming, his random one-hole group represents what his rifle can do, and the other groups reflect what he can typically do with his rifle, then it’s not my place to judge his insecurity.

Big Uncle

I do think that some fellows bolster their egos in this manner. If it helps them to feel good about themselves and nobody else either makes or changes a decision based on their statements then I see no harm. To me it is a bit sad, and a bit funny - mostly funny. He was an older fellow, and he seemed like a good guy, but I still would bet that he had a photo of the group posted on a board somewhere before the sun went down.

mrbb

another way to maybe look at this is
MAYBE the rifle is capable of 1 hole groups., but it was the shooter that wasn't every group?
HEY, never know right?
so maybe he isn't wrong stating the RIFLE is one hole shooter LOL

hardcastonly

YEAH I see guys all the time bragging about shooting groups with all the bullet impact holes touching,
but thats off a sand bag rest in most cases.
most of those guys could not hit a 2" coke can at 100 yards from their choice of a rapidly acquired field position.
I can easily see where shooting 5-10 shot groups for a target rifle, might be valid,
shooting paper is vastly different than hunting game.
but on larger caliber hunting rifle I don't think thats really required or necessary,
Any dependable hunting rifle in a reasonable caliber and bullet weight,
for the game being hunted,if you miss the intended bullet impact point ,
on a large game animal by less than an inch,
I doubt theres ever been a different outcome to the impact of the bullet, from any rifle
that will provide you with a consistent 3 shot group, starting with a cold barrel is more realistic,
and if you can place all your first 3 shots inside a 1.5inch diameter circle thats effectively placing all your shots within about 3/4s of an inch of the aim point,
and if you can do that, placing shots with an accurate rifle to the games vital's I can't image anything walking surviving even one or two well-placed shots.

its not the cartridge or rifle choice, nearly as much as the experience and skill of the guy holding the rifle,
precise shot placement is always critical to success,
and you can,t ignore physics a larger mass projectile traveling at similar or higher velocity imparts greater impact energy,
and damage and tends to penetrate deeper, given equal construction.
you certainly might not agree with my choices in rifle or caliber,
but I've never seen a deer or elk shrug off a hit from my three favorite rifles,
a 30/06 browning single shot, a 340 wby bolt action,
and a 375 H&H sako bolt action

bronko22000

Nothing wrong with shooting off a bench and sand bags. But s person should still practice shooting from field positions. We stress this when we teach our hunter/trapper education classes. In my over 55 years of shooting many rifles, I only had a couple that consistently shot less than 1/2 MOA. My previously mentioned Rem 700 in .270 Win., Another Rem 700 with a heavy barrel in 7-08 and my current Bergara HMR. There may have been another that I don't recall at this time. But I've had a whole bunch that shot 1 - 1.5 MOA (and slightly larger) that I have successfully taken game with.
I believe too many get caught up with super accurate rifles when only a small percentage of shooters actually need one for what they do. I don't mind someone bragging about a group. I'm not in competition with them. Let them have their day.

Nomercy448

I’d take a race on a ~2.5moa target (Coke can) from a “rapidly acquired field position” any day of the week, especially only at 100yrds. He11, I DO take that race a couple weekends per month, but at longer ranges.

hardcastonly

for a couple years I worked part time as a range officer and I helped train new security guards in proper pistol craft,
if you can drop into a sitting or prone position and put a hole in a coke can at 100 yards CONSISTENTLY, in under 7-10 seconds
with your hunting rifle,on the first shot, your skills are far above average.
trust me when I say that Ive had dozens of people that are excellent shots of a bench rest, try that and the vast majority have had zero or near-zero success.
yeah most experienced hunters get close or can do it occasionally,
and with practice its not hard to do with a good rifle, but your average guy at the range....
your making a safe bet he can,t drop into a sitting or prone position and put a hole in a coke can in under 7-10 seconds
and hit the target with his first shot.