yeah posted mostly to get your opinions
 

• you seldom find people how once having used these pistol caliber carbines,
•  
  • be aware that the pistol caliber carbines
  • (most are available in 9mm para caliber,
  • with
  • 40 S&W and 10mm and 45 acp
  
  
  
• who don,t have a strong opinion either favorable or negative,
• they are either appreciated for lower recoil,
• lower cost ammo and being a handy personal defensive weapon,
• or as many guys see them,
• a rather archaic , tool that has decades ago been superseded,
• with the much more powerful ,
• m1 carbine,
• 
• AR-15/

• AK-47 style carbines
• 

• These other caliber options like .40 S&W and 10mm and 45 acp
• are generally much more scarce or limited availability versions)
• are fun to plink with and ammo's reasonably priced
• these can be fun for informal plinking.
• and certainly would in some cases be a good personal defensive weapon for the home,
• or wife to have available in your home
• ,as recoil and muzzle blast is very very low and even a novice can generally shoot these well,with minimal practice,
• provided shes willing to gain familiarity and practice in its use.
• but its a weapon platform the military in most countrys no longer issues
• ,in significant numbers,
• they are generally reserved for special ops troops in very limited numbers
• pistol caliber carbines are not generally used by most front line combat troops,
• and there's a damn good reason,
• most pistol caliber carbines are almost the size and weight of an intermediate rifle caliber carbine,
• in calibers like 223/5.56 and 7.62/39 and similar cartridges,
• those calibers have more than twice the punch,
• and three times the effective range.
• most of the current commercial available pistol carbines could never pass military durability trials
• (the UZI , H&K MP 5 and AK and AR 15 based versions are an exception)
• yeah, police and security forces use some versions,
• so ask yourself if you were given a choice in weaponry and in either case,
• weight and size were similar.
• the smaller pistol caliber carbines are mostly used with suppressors
• (silencers??)
• (that suppressor being added requires an additional ATF form and $200 tax stamp and approval)
• where the smaller pistol calibers, and 8"-12" barrels,
• make a great deal of sense,
• is with the suppressor use.
• because they are designed and used at under 100 yards,
• to take out sentries with greatly reduced noise in the military use.
• Id bet most of us, if given a choice in a potential personal defensive, combat scenario,
• would step up to an intermediate rifle caliber carbine,
• in calibers like 223/5.56 , 30 us govt carbine and 7.62/39 and similar cartridges,
• personally Id damn sure rather carry a carbine ,
• in calibers like 223/5.56 and 7.62/39 and similar cartridges,
• now semi auto carbines are available in under 16" barrel lengths,
• but if you buy one it requires a NFA $200 tax stamp and ATF approval,
• which has restrictions and can take 4-7 months for approval
• a carbine with a 16" barrel is the size of an intermediate cartridge carbine and to me it's a bad trade-off ,
• you lost potential range and power, using a pistol caliber,
• but are carrying the similar weight and size weapon.

If you might prefer something thats a good deal less military in appearance and very effective, in a personal defense carbine
theres always the option of a marlin 44 mag lever gun

https://gundigest.com/rifles/ar-15/s...aliber-carbine

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/6-r...e-makes-sense/

https://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/...pros-and-cons/

https://thegunzone.com/best-9mm-carbines/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...ines-for-2019/

https://kalashnikov-usa.com/guns/kr-9-sbr/

https://kalashnikov-usa.com/guns/kr-9rifle/

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/aam-rmuz-09

https://hk-usa.com/

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...ar15-carbines/

https://www.gunbacker.com/9mm-carbines/

https://gun.deals/product/uzi-9mm-carbine-725

https://www.minutemanreview.com/best-9mm-carbine/

https://gundigest.com/rifles/7-affor...e-options-2018

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com...e-rifle.12421/

whats you thoughts?

btw Ive played with quite a few of these carbines
theres a few I like (the uzi , MP5 and AK versions)
that impressed me as a personal defensive weapon option,
and several I think are basically junk,
(yes just personal opinion, so yours may differ)
hi-point and keltec come to mind

whats your experience

Between what I assume are grammatical errors and the machine gun bullet formatting, I honestly have no thread what this post is supposed to be asking, or if it’s trying to tell something instead. Needs a major overhaul.

yeah I couldn;t really follow the point of things here
or what the question is or isn't

and I feel there are some miss leading info too in the above!

I was a class 3 dealer and sold many things as well as used many different weapons in this class
I have had customers that had paperwork go thru in under 3 weeks, and some that took over a yr
there is ZERO SET time table on when things go thru the BATF 's office and get approval or denial!

there are also what is called short barreled rifles that are also in the category of a class 3 item, requiring special paper work
and it an be confusing to some LAW enforcement officers that find folks with PISTOL classified like items!
it can even be illegal to posses some certain items at the same time without proper paperwork!

and just to add, smaller pistols/carbines in semi or full auto, DON"T need or require a suppressor to be used well
but adding one, many times does add some balance to them, that seem to help many shoot them better!, or been my experience!
then again, MOST folks seem to shoot many things with suppressors better, due to less noise, and its even been proven, that using a suppressor one many rifles, ADD"S to the accuracy of the rifle!

so one can legally own a rifle caliber pistol in a semi auto, and where legal , also a short barrel rifle in pistol calibers
all comes down to spec's on things and wording and designs and location!

there are and always will be pro's and con's to "X" caliber being used for protection and or other things
its like many things in life anymore, OPTIONS< and what YOU like best, and using it, and what others like best, let them use it!

odds are, most folks will NEVER need to find out what works best or not in a REAL situation
and like most things, , shop placement matters more than caliber or weapon used in MOST cases!

I have no idea what this thread is actually about. But the only one of the firearms pictured that I personally would want is the 30 Carbine. One of those has been on my bucket list for a log time.

You must be trying to start a discussion on pistol caliber carbines. Can't really tell with your formatting but I'll join in.

All my kids learned to shoot with a .357 levergun. It's very easy to shoot. The amount of plinking I've done with it has made a better shooter. I've taken several whitetail deer with it. Those are the reason I like a pistol caliber carbine. Personally I'm not interested in a magazine fed 9mm, 10mm, or 40 S&W. Got a 5.56 and a .450 bushmaster AR-15s for semi-auto rifles.

I’m not certain the point of the massive dump of links, and of course, the bullet point line break is terrible distracting, further breaking already broken English.

But it seems unfortunate have such a massive wall of text regarding pistol cartridge carbines, but fail to reference the common models of PCC’s on the market today, focusing only on relatively military only arms, and then blending (a segway as subtle as a freight train) right after into leverguns...

The Ruger PC Carbine (recently re-released), Beretta CX4 Storm, CZ Scorpion, High Point 995, Kel-tec Sub-2000... all far more common in the PCC market than anything but the AR9 listed above.

And I have to say, the woefully contrived Hollywood-esque claim that suppressed PCC’s are “designed to take out sentries” in military application could not be further from the truth. Military application of pistol cartridge sub-machine guns has been very well defined, and the driving influence certainly has never been this scenario described as their main purpose - straight out of a bad action movie.

I used to carry a 30 cal carbine as a car gun when I was still in the field working, I wish I still had it.

I had a HiPoint in 9mm that I sold to my cousin. And more recently I purchased a Chiappa M-1 carbine in 9mm (uses Beretta mags) that is a ton of fun to shoot. I have other pistol caliber rifles. One is a Marlin 1894 in .357 mag.and the other is a Rossi in .44 mag (I forget the model but it looks like a Win '92).
I believe Hardcast just wants to put something on this forum that seems to be slowing down a lot. And he does seem to heavily weigh down his post with pics. But that's ok as long as the moderators don't care.

I have a buddy that has an original Springfield of WWII vintage that he got from CMP when they had them. We used to play with it a lot. Fun rifle. I'd rather have the 30 Carbine with a 30 round mag than an AR in 5.56 for home defense. I know the 5.56 is effective because I shot some folks in the Middle East with it but I just like a little more bullet weight and the 30 Carbine shoots 110 gr bullet.

South Korea wanted to return thousands of M1s in 30 Carbine back when OBozo was in office. Normally these would go through the CMP for civilian purchase. OBozo refused to allow them into the nation and they were cut into scrap. CMP hasn't had any except for special auction listing for some time. May need to just bite the bullet and order a new one. Springfield and a few other makers still make them but they are pricey. I'd rather have one of the old military issue just because of the history behind them.

Yeah, my choice too:

Yeah. The one I had was a CMP gun.

No clue what being said or asked....This is why we boil our thoughts down into a couple sentences.

Cut and paste extraordinaire. Long posts are unreadable to me. I no longer need lots of pictures to keep me occupied.

I learned the role of firearms a whole different way than is preached today. First engage at the longest distance practical, none of this wait until you see the whites of their eyes B.S.

A pistol is only for those instances when your long gun malfunctions or touch them distance, a much better option than hand to hand or knife combat. Rifle, carbine, shotgun, pistol, knife, hands/feet and teeth in that order as the distance of engagement decreases. I have no idea where a pistol caliber carbine falls in the list, before or after a shotgun? Shotgun generally has a better chance of a hit, while a pistol caliber carbine has a little more distance.

Then you have to access the threat,

In the neighborhood, only two directions I can fire to make a full rifle useful or practical and even then passthrough might pose a threat to innocents.

A pistol caliber carbine might be useful. I opt for a rifle caliber carbine myself and try to shoot from the high ground, second story.

I shoot running rabbits (mostly) in the head with a shotgun, biting down on shotgun pellets is not fun. Shot them in the face and that is pretty much the end of the threat. If that makes you squeamish, the crotch is also a good deterrent.

Two things I always look for in a firearm, reliability and how robust it is.

When I went through my combat training they told us the only reason to use a knife was to fight your way to a pistol and the only reason to use a pistol was to fight your way to a long gun and the only reason to use a long gun is in cases where you cannot bring a crew served weapon to bear. The gist of that line of thinking is that you always try to upgrade your weapon at all times. Additionally I'd like to point out that the 30 Carbine shown IS NOT chambered in a pistol cartridge. The 30 Carbine round was specifically designed for the M1 Carbine. Therefore it is a rifle cartridge. The fact that some handguns have been chambered for it does not make it a pistol cartridge. Heck there are handguns chambered for 30-30, 30-06 and even 45-70 but that doesn't make them pistol cartridges.

If I'm following this post correctly...

my thoughts are...

get a .300 blackout ar15 with a 8.5" barrel to fulfill or better all of your needs!

IMO .300 blk > 9mm, .40, .45 and still compact....more powerful, also 110gr supersonic, and 220 subsonic options

Glad someone finally said it about one of his posts.

The OP is in good company.

I believe the question is "do you think PCC's are still viable, or have they been superseded?"

To which the answer is YES.

They are still viable, but they have also been superseded.

A 16" barrel 9mm PCC (preferably a locked breech design) loaded with 9mm+P+ is equivalent to a 4" barrel .357 magnum ballistically. No one on earth would ever say a 20 or 30rd .357 magnum is a bad thing.

A .357 magnum lever gun with a 16" barrel and max pressure rounds is the ballistic equivalent to a 7.62x39mm AK, but is 50 state legal. No one would ever say that's a bad thing. This is also a very Jury friendly option.

An M1 carbine with 110gr JSP has about the same muzzle energy at 100yds as a 4" .357 magnum at the muzzle. No one would ever say that's a bad thing.

None of them are bad...but an AR a Mini-14 or an AK is still better for most things.