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.45-70 or something else?
A few years back I sold my .45-70 to partially fund a Savage 99 in .375 Winchester. I've taken three deer with that .375 and just haven't fallen in love with it. On game performance has been excellent, but I want to go back to a Marlin lever gun.
This will be for my primary Ohio (straight walled only) deer rifle, PA bear, and a walking gun for PA deer. Should I be looking at anything else other than the .45-70? I do handload. Others that I was thinking of was .444, .450 Marlin. Any reason to go one of those routes over the .45-70? Right now I'm 95% sure on the .45-70 but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. By selling the 99 I can pick up a Marlin lever as well as a youth rifle for the kids. Let's hear your thoughts. -Jake |
Boy, am I understanding that .375 for what it is? Isn't that overkill for deer?
For states that require straight-walled cartridges, I don't think you can do better than .45-70. Good bear medicine too. Still, as someone who owns a .44 magnum revolver, I wonder if that wouldn't be a better choice. Perhaps cheaper to run? |
Originally Posted by Cub Slayer
(Post 4367498)
Boy, am I understanding that .375 for what it is? Isn't that overkill for deer?
-Jake |
Originally Posted by Cub Slayer
(Post 4367498)
For states that require straight-walled cartridges, I don't think you can do better than .45-70. Good bear medicine too. Still, as someone who owns a .44 magnum revolver, I wonder if that wouldn't be a better choice. Perhaps cheaper to run? I have a .44 mag Marlin. And have taken several deer with it. But I don't enjoy it as a primary option. Certainly capable.. but not what I want. And I wouldn't want it as a black bear rifle either. At least not where and how I hunt them. Thanks for the input though. -Jake |
Originally Posted by Bocajnala
(Post 4367499)
No, you're not understanding. But that's ok. You don't seem interested in being here to learn. And I wouldn't want the topic to get off track in order to explain the difference between the .375 Winchester and what I assume you are confusing with the .375 H&H mag. But if you want to: Google .375 Winchester.
-Jake |
No, I'm not.
I answered your question. You weren't understanding. I tailored an answer to your preferences. You don't seem interested in having anything explained to you. So I provided you with the ability to find the information yourself. And I stayed on topic. You, as you said in another post, don't like things to go off topic. Seems that everything should have been to your liking. -Jake |
Originally Posted by Bocajnala
(Post 4367499)
But that's ok. You don't seem interested in being here to learn. And I wouldn't want the topic to get off track in order to explain the difference between the .375 Winchester and what I assume you are confusing with the .375 H&H mag. But if you want to: Google .375 Winchester.
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Jake - not that I’m a fan of Winchester 94’s over Marlins, not by a long shot, but I have a Winchester 94 Big Bore on my bench right now with extraction issues, chambered in .375 Winchester. Given a 99 in .375W in hand, even as much as I love Marlin leverguns, especially 1895’s in 45-70, I’d keep it around with intention of finding the appropriate moments to expose a loved one who might inherit it one day to the old 99 and the old .375 Win (stocking up on a healthy supply of ammo and/or brass to keep them well fed in the future). They just aren’t around to be had - I’d gladly save up for another 1895 in .45-70 though. |
That's a thought no mercy. It isn't hurting anything sitting around. And a Marlin can be found in this area for $500.
I'll think about that. -Jake |
No mercy
Is there any reason to look at anything other then the 45-70 in that class of rifle? The .450 or .444? -Jake |
My 2 cents, for what it’s worth! Go with the 45-70......especially if you hand load. You can load up or down, plus you have a huge variety of bullets to custom taylor to your specific needs/wants. You can easily load it down to .375 Win levels......but, you could “never” bring the .375 Win. up to the potential levels of the 45-70! memtb |
The 450 marlin is in essence a 45/70 loaded to top level with a belt so it can't be chambered in a Springfield or other weaker actions. the 444 fires a 429 diameter bullet which is a pistol bullet, versatile if you reload its just a magnum 44 magnum if ya don't.
RR |
Originally Posted by Bocajnala
(Post 4367495)
A few years back I sold my .45-70 to partially fund a Savage 99 in .375 Winchester. I've taken three deer with that .375 and just haven't fallen in love with it. On game performance has been excellent, but I want to go back to a Marlin lever gun.
This will be for my primary Ohio (straight walled only) deer rifle, PA bear, and a walking gun for PA deer. Should I be looking at anything else other than the .45-70? I do handload. Others that I was thinking of was .444, .450 Marlin. Any reason to go one of those routes over the .45-70? Right now I'm 95% sure on the .45-70 but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. By selling the 99 I can pick up a Marlin lever as well as a youth rifle for the kids. Let's hear your thoughts. -Jake RR |
Originally Posted by Cub Slayer
(Post 4367501)
Pissy, aren't we?
RR |
Jake, I cannot even begin to say how much I like my Marlin 45-70. I have killed about 15 deer with it and 10 wild hogs. I love the way it puts them down and how little damage it does to the meat compared to my .308 despite having a projectile that is over twice as heavy. I also too, a Bison with it. Am I an expert on calibers and ballistics? No. Do I know what works and does a good job under the circumstances that I hunt with over 50 years of experience? I think I do.
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I used a marlin 45/70 for several decades, it was and is an excellent choice,
I used mostly 350-400 grain hard cast gas check bullets and RL7 or IMR 4198 or IMR 3031 powders and, all were capable of 2" or less 3 shot groups at 100 yards off a good bench rest, with a 4x scope. about 20 years back I swapped to a browning BLR in 450 marlin, personally I don,t regret the swap and yes the browning IS a marginally more accurate rifle in my experience, but theres nothing youll hunt with either rifle or caliber that will know the difference. if you prefer the marlin,or the BLR youll be well armed, especially if hand load and use the 350-405 grain bullets, either jacketed or hard cast if I buy a new marlin 45/70 it will be the cowboy version  |
btw I briefly owned a ruger single shot in 375 win, it was very accurate ,
but like your experience I just never grew overly fond of the cartridge and when I was offered considerably more cash for the rifle, and 300 empty cases and several bullet molds it changed owners, its present owner is thrilled, so we are both happy. |
Originally Posted by Bocajnala
(Post 4367510)
No mercy
Is there any reason to look at anything other then the 45-70 in that class of rifle? The .450 or .444? -Jake And of course, it ain’t a .45-70. The 444 Marlin is a cartridge I really want to love, but tend to come up short. I’m about as big of fan of .44 mag as anyone, and ~15-20yrs ago when I was pushing Marlin 1894s with little 44mag cases to their max, the 444marlin was a welcomed option. Less recoil and less powder than the Marlin only 45-70 loads (very similar recoil comparing SAAMI loads in similar weights), but less factory ammo and brass availability, less bullet weight, and less viable 44cal bullets available. Without my own 44-ophilia, I can’t say I think there’s any reason to grab a 444 over a 44mag unless you were a dedicated hardcast bulletmaker who wanted to port the same pills in your rifle as your revolver. I suppose a guy could almost make a case to support the 444 Marin is a unique combination of less recoil, less powder, less lead, but the same effective range on the same game in the field. Almost. But, of course, it ain’t a .45-70. Almost arbitrarily, I like the 444 more than the 450, just for my bias for all things 44 cal, but given the 3 standing beside each other in the rack, and enjoying dating all of the above, the .45-70 is the one I’d marry if I could only pick one. In a Marlin levergun, I’m not sure I’d venture farther than those 3 options, and I know I’d personally land on a 45-70 1895. There are a handful of other chamberings out there in the Marlin, including the .375 Winchester and the chamber-mate .38-55, or the more modernized 35 rem (a hunter’s combination if there ever was one). Might be worth your while to dig around for a Marlin in .375 win to compliment the old Savage, and better justify the ammunition supply on hand. Looks like there are a couple on Gunbroker at relatively reasonable prices right now. |
If you want to really have a blast, track down a bp cartridge sharps 45/70 and go to town. I've been a bp fanatic most of my life and absolutely love all the little foibles in bp shooting, weather they be in bp cartridge or muzzle loading. If an original bp sharps is out of your price range, which it really can be out of a lot of folks, there are several really good repro models out there that shoot fantastic. But, if you have little imagination and want all this modern stuff, the marlin 45/70 is a great shooting little rifle and carries well. Recoil is mild, to me anyway, and there's not an animal on this continent I wouldn't face it down with. I have little experience with the 450 and the .444 marlin is a really good white tail round. But I find it a bit limited for black bear being it uses pistol bullets. Will it work? Yes. Would it be a better choice than a 45/70? Not just no but HECK no.
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Rr, no mercy has me just about convinced to hold onto it. It isn't hurting anything there in the safe, and it certainly won't lose value.
No mercy, thanks for the thorough response. I hadn't even considered looking for a matching Marlin. But I've seen them sell for not much more than a .45-70. That would get me back into a Marlin but still be unique and something different. It sounds like for my needs the .45-70 is still the way to go between those three options listed. I have no issues with the .375 win performance. Three deer is a small sample size, but it's been two bang flops and the third left a 30 yard blood trail that was easy to follow. -Jake |
jake i once owned a marlin 45-70 & sold it to fund another gun . kinda sorry i sold it . but moved on. but i do have a cva 45-70 single shot with a leupold scope on it . my consider selling it . i know i my end up buying a single shot 350 legend due to my should injuries. you know how i like the 450 bushmaster. great cartridge.
also if you went with the 350 legend your kids could use also. but again it's not a 45-70. let me know & i'll talk to rob @ the gun store we stopped at & see what he can get you one for . |
I was going toss my ideas out there until I reread your opening post and realized they don't fit.
I'll mention them so everyone can chuckle at my lack of reading comprehension. Marlin 336 in .35 Remington, oops bottleneck cartridge 450 Bushmaster, oops again AR platform anyway...the 45-70 in a Marlin big bore is very alluring. If I buy another rifle that what I want. enjoy,,,i would keep the 99 |
Jake I'm sure you know my answer to this one. I'm a huge fan of the .45-70. I also handload and except for my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps which shoots the heavier bullets, I've found you don't need any more than the 300 gr Hornady Interlock HP bullets for either deer or bear. I send them out the bore with 51 gr of H4198 and it pounds the snot out of the bear. I've only taken one deer with it because I use other rifles or muzzleloaders if I have a tag left by the time rifle season rolls around. None of the bear I shot with it ever needed a second shot and neither went more than about 30 yards.
Like previously mentioned the .444 uses a pistol bullet. Adequate yes but would not be my first choice. The .450 is a good cartridge but it can't do anything the .45-70 can't do. Either one of these can use up to 500 gr bullets if you handload and cast your own but these heavies are unnecessary. One other thing you might consider is ammo availability. Now you would likely bring your own handloads on a trip. But you're getting up in age and you could possibly forget to pack it!! You can always run to a Walmart and pick up a box of .45-70s or even possibly .444s. Not so sure about .450s . And if you can I'd hang on to the 99. Could be a valuable item soon to a collector. |
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