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-   -   Win Model 70 problem possibly solved (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/421770-win-model-70-problem-possibly-solved.html)

bronko22000 09-17-2019 10:33 AM

Win Model 70 problem possibly solved
 
4 Attachment(s)
After getting good but not great groups with everything I shot out of this rifle I decided it was time to bed the action. I still need to get the steel epoxy yet but I thought I'd start the prep. Removing the action then trigger and bolt release lever I set that aside and started taping then releaving the material where I wanted to put the epoxy. After starting to remove the material I had no problem at the tang area. But the nightmare started when I got in front of the magazine. Some knucklehead had bedded this portion. But instead of a steel epoxy they used regular 2 part epoxy! This stuff was like rubber. It took me most of the morning to remove it all and get down to bare wood. It kept humming up my tiny grinders so I had to use picks, utility knife and needle nose pliers to get it out.

Big Uncle 09-17-2019 11:32 AM

That sounds like it was the factory bedding that they put into the recoil lug mortise of all newer Winchesters. It is not great stuff but I guess it is better than having the recoil lug fit loosely into a sloppy mortise. I have the same stuff in both recoil lug mortises of my Safari Express but it shoots so well "as is" that I am not going to change it. It is also in my Featherweight. Both rifles shoot about as well as I have seen a Winchester shoot. On my rifles is much harder than rubber but it is certainly not the ideal material. Good luck with your tinkering.

Nomercy448 09-17-2019 02:36 PM

Itíll be good to see how it shoots after getting properly bedded. A 2 part epoxy can be used, not just impregnated steel matrix epoxies, but it certainly shouldnít be soft!

bronko22000 09-17-2019 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by Nomercy448 (Post 4361337)
It’ll be good to see how it shoots after getting properly bedded. A 2 part epoxy can be used, not just impregnated steel matrix epoxies, but it certainly shouldn’t be soft!


Nomercy this stuff was about the same texture as soft rubber (like an ATV tire). You could easily compress it with your fingers.
Why not the steel impregnated? I've watched gunsmiths online use Devcon 10110 which is plastic epoxy metal filled. That's what I used. But I was sure to add a lot of release agent (Johnson's paste wax) applied 3 times in a nice uniform coating so as not to create any voids. I filled any areas in the action with plumber's putty where I didn't want any unwanted epoxy like the trigger area and screw holes. I only did applied the epoxy around the tang screw area, a tiny drop under the tang, around the front action screw, recoil lug and about 2.5" in front of the recoil lug. I did not bed the entire receiver area. Just too many nooks and crannys for the epoxy to get into.

Nomercy448 09-17-2019 05:30 PM

Devcon steel 10110 is great stuff (a 2 part epoxy impregnated with steel powder aggregate matrix), and most often what I use for the last 8-9yrs, but there are a lot of non-matrix 2 part epoxies which fit the bill. Marine-Tex and Pro-Bed 2000 are very popular products for glass bedding, and make very solid beds, but donít include the steel aggregate. Nothing wrong with Devcon steel in the least, but properly hardened 2 part epoxies work as well.

If the glob of factory bedding compound wasnít hard, Iíd bet they didnít balance their epoxy properly - obviously not enough hardener.

bronko22000 09-17-2019 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by Nomercy448 (Post 4361350)
Devcon steel 10110 is great stuff (a 2 part epoxy impregnated with steel powder aggregate matrix), and most often what I use for the last 8-9yrs, but there are a lot of non-matrix 2 part epoxies which fit the bill. Marine-Tex and Pro-Bed 2000 are very popular products for glass bedding, and make very solid beds, but donít include the steel aggregate. Nothing wrong with Devcon steel in the least, but properly hardened 2 part epoxies work as well.

If the glob of factory bedding compound wasnít hard, Iíd bet they didnít balance their epoxy properly - obviously not enough hardener.

Well nomercy you scared the crap out of me! All I could think was I was going to have a stock permanently attached to my action. I definitely put enough release agent on the metal. Three coats with a tooth brush. I'm hoping I don't have a problem getting it out.

Nomercy448 09-18-2019 10:51 AM

70ís, 77ís, 98ís, 550ís, etc are a bear to release after bedding. Round tube actions like Savage and Remington pop out pretty slick, but the big square belly actions have a habit of hanging on pretty tightly. Just a nature of their shape.

bronko22000 09-18-2019 05:23 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Bedding and free floating all done. Just waiting for the stock sealant to cure. The bedding came out very neat and uniform. The small white spots are plumbers putty from areas I didn't want the epoxy to get into. I really got a good firm contact. If you look close you can even see the machining marks from the action's tang and a portion of the serial number in front of the recoil lug!

bronko22000 09-24-2019 10:36 AM

Well I guess the verdict is out. For all the work I put into this rifle free floating the barrel, bedding the action, various bullets, powders and charges the best I could do was 1 MOA. Today I shot several loads of varying OALs and have determined that this rifle is an honest 1 - 1.25 MOA shooter. Will not be a long range rifle but will be a great rifle for hunting out to 300-400 yards for sure. I guess I'll keep it a couple years and then sell it off for a nice profit. (It's not every day you can pick up a Winchester Custom Shop rifle for $400!)

RaySendero 09-24-2019 11:22 AM

bronco, I'm really sorry :( - You've done all that and still not happy with results.

We disused accuracy of your rifle in that other M70 win thread.
I didn't think my experience would apply to your rifle,
BUT think you should try it now. Don't see where you would have anything to loose.
IME, I have "fixed" the accuracy of 3 very fussy M70 win by a simple change
to a long for caliber flat base bullet.
Since your plan to keep it around for a while, just try that.


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