we all have done it, but why do we care?
03-15-2019, 06:46 AM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
we all have done it, but why do we care?
I went to the local out door 200 yard range to check the zero on a couple of my rifles with some new hand loads,
as I'm sighting in, one of the rifles the guy on the next bench over, starts up a conversation,
he wanted to know what caliber the rifle I had was and what I intended to hunt etc.
now if your into rifles and shooting thats hardly a rare conversation,
and if you visit the range regularly your sure to have more than once been in a similar conversation.
I was sighting in my BLR in 450 marlin and my 458 LOTT with a mild cast bullet load.
the BLR is currently using a 405 grain jacketed bullet over 50 grains of imr 3031 and its pushed to about 1900 fps
(best load found so far)
its an exceptionally accurate combo, and a 3 shot 100 yard group of about 1" is not all that difficult to duplicate,
if you really concentrate but 1.5" is almost the common result certainly accurate enough,
for a rifle that will never be used at over about 270 yards, and one I found to be exceptionally effective.
Im still working on the 458 LOTT loads with a 540 grain cast bullet ,Im trying to find a decent mid velocity load, with mixed results.
the guy on the next bench has a win 94 30/30, hes getting 3"-4" groups at 50 yards with a huge 4x12x scope that looks totally out of place.
I learned long ago to ignore other people at the range unless they ask for your advice or help...
As I walk back with my targets he can't believe how tight the browning BLR groups are, and hes also rather intrigued , with the BLR,
he likes the look and accuracy but hes very reluctant to try a couple shots with my BLR even after I offered to let him try it if he wanted to do so.
he then informs me that a 450 marlin kicks almost as bad as a 458 win.......
I then ask him if hes ever even tried to shoot a 450 marlin. and where he got that bit of info?
he declines to try,(if you don,t try new things and gain personal experience your limited in experience)
I find the fascination, some guys have with pointing out the flaws in the rifles other people carry,
rather amazing, I learned long ago that its the skill of the guy using the rifle rather than the rifle or case head stamp, that matters,
we all have done it, (gotten in these discussions) but why do we care?
especially when you learn from experience over time,
that most of the less knowledgeable guys won,t bother to take good advice,
or make the required changes!
I've helped dozens of guys sight in, I've helped easily more than 50-60 guys sort out problems,
with their rifles or scopes or mounts or hand-loads,
while sighting in, and getting ready for up-coming hunts,
just in the group of guys I hunt with over the last few decades.
now the guy was rather impressed with my group size at 100 yards,
and he asked me to take a couple shots with his Winchester lever action,
I looked the rifle over and found two problems, loose scope mounts you could feel shift, in your hands,
if you tried , moving the scope in your hands,
and he was using two different bullet weights and brands to sight the rifle in.
I pointed that out, and he said he would get a buddy of his to re-tighten the scope,
but it was a borrowed scope so that was not really important...
I wished him good luck and after a few more shots I packed up and left.
how many of you gentlemen have gotten into these discussions?
how many of you have had some guy who obviously is rather clueless tell you your doing things wrong?
How often have you found people ignore good advice?
and if your like me, do you find that a bit frustrating,
(having the knowledge and skills, being asked for help, and having the advice ignored?)
as I'm sighting in, one of the rifles the guy on the next bench over, starts up a conversation,
he wanted to know what caliber the rifle I had was and what I intended to hunt etc.
now if your into rifles and shooting thats hardly a rare conversation,
and if you visit the range regularly your sure to have more than once been in a similar conversation.
I was sighting in my BLR in 450 marlin and my 458 LOTT with a mild cast bullet load.
the BLR is currently using a 405 grain jacketed bullet over 50 grains of imr 3031 and its pushed to about 1900 fps
(best load found so far)
its an exceptionally accurate combo, and a 3 shot 100 yard group of about 1" is not all that difficult to duplicate,
if you really concentrate but 1.5" is almost the common result certainly accurate enough,
for a rifle that will never be used at over about 270 yards, and one I found to be exceptionally effective.
Im still working on the 458 LOTT loads with a 540 grain cast bullet ,Im trying to find a decent mid velocity load, with mixed results.
the guy on the next bench has a win 94 30/30, hes getting 3"-4" groups at 50 yards with a huge 4x12x scope that looks totally out of place.
I learned long ago to ignore other people at the range unless they ask for your advice or help...
As I walk back with my targets he can't believe how tight the browning BLR groups are, and hes also rather intrigued , with the BLR,
he likes the look and accuracy but hes very reluctant to try a couple shots with my BLR even after I offered to let him try it if he wanted to do so.
he then informs me that a 450 marlin kicks almost as bad as a 458 win.......
I then ask him if hes ever even tried to shoot a 450 marlin. and where he got that bit of info?
he declines to try,(if you don,t try new things and gain personal experience your limited in experience)
I find the fascination, some guys have with pointing out the flaws in the rifles other people carry,
rather amazing, I learned long ago that its the skill of the guy using the rifle rather than the rifle or case head stamp, that matters,
we all have done it, (gotten in these discussions) but why do we care?
especially when you learn from experience over time,
that most of the less knowledgeable guys won,t bother to take good advice,
or make the required changes!
I've helped dozens of guys sight in, I've helped easily more than 50-60 guys sort out problems,
with their rifles or scopes or mounts or hand-loads,
while sighting in, and getting ready for up-coming hunts,
just in the group of guys I hunt with over the last few decades.
now the guy was rather impressed with my group size at 100 yards,
and he asked me to take a couple shots with his Winchester lever action,
I looked the rifle over and found two problems, loose scope mounts you could feel shift, in your hands,
if you tried , moving the scope in your hands,
and he was using two different bullet weights and brands to sight the rifle in.
I pointed that out, and he said he would get a buddy of his to re-tighten the scope,
but it was a borrowed scope so that was not really important...
I wished him good luck and after a few more shots I packed up and left.
how many of you gentlemen have gotten into these discussions?
how many of you have had some guy who obviously is rather clueless tell you your doing things wrong?
How often have you found people ignore good advice?
and if your like me, do you find that a bit frustrating,
(having the knowledge and skills, being asked for help, and having the advice ignored?)
Last edited by hardcastonly; 03-15-2019 at 07:53 AM.
03-15-2019, 07:49 AM
#2
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,380
Interesting points. We've all been on both sides of this issue in different subject matter. Sometimes the person won't come up for air while talking over you. Usually those people are afraid you're going to disagree with them. Sometimes, it seems like people who ask you a question are only interested in receiving an answer that they agree with. Like that guy at the range you mentioned. He didn't seem to be interested in testing his premise to find out if maybe he was wrong. He just wanted you to agree with him and continue shooting with his rifle with loose scope mounts. He didn't even seem to be interested in your observation that his scope mounts were loose. He seemed more interested in being right (according to him at least) than in not wasting his ammo and not getting his rifle sighted in. When we're younger we tend to argue with those people. As we get older, we realize we have less time left on this planet and arguing with somebody like that simply wasted range time or time for doing something else productive. It's helpful though if you don't smile when you agree with them or don't argue as they somehow seem to know they're wrong and tend to get huffy if they think you know they're wrong. 
03-15-2019, 08:50 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
The three biggest things that get my goat are the guys or gals who ask you for help and then completely ignore any advice you offer. You can tell them, but you can't make them listen. Part of it is I'm a pizz poor teacher.
The second is the guy or gals that think quantity trumps quality. They have this thing in their heads that says if you fire enough ammo magic is going to happen. They ignore the basics and just shoot, usually all over the place forever.
The third are those that are stuck on speed and think getting as many rounds down range as quickly as possible is going to increase their chances of hitting the bullseye.
I've about given up on teaching anybody. I'll take them to the rage and show them, but won't try to tell them. IMO TV and video games have ruined any chance for most young people to learn accuracy, their preconceptions make them almost impossible to train.
The second is the guy or gals that think quantity trumps quality. They have this thing in their heads that says if you fire enough ammo magic is going to happen. They ignore the basics and just shoot, usually all over the place forever.
The third are those that are stuck on speed and think getting as many rounds down range as quickly as possible is going to increase their chances of hitting the bullseye.
I've about given up on teaching anybody. I'll take them to the rage and show them, but won't try to tell them. IMO TV and video games have ruined any chance for most young people to learn accuracy, their preconceptions make them almost impossible to train.
03-15-2019, 10:26 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
I used to have a William Evans double rifle in 450/400 31/4 Nitro Express. It was an over lever action with exposed hammers and was fully engraved with the rose pattern. That gun always got me involved in discussions at the range and I always had people begging to shoot it. I never allowed it simply due to cost. The only source of factory ammo was Kynoch and they ran $11 a round. I handloaded and it still cost over $4 a round. Call me stingy but I wasn't gonna let the average Joe shoot up that expensive ammo. In a fit of extreme stupidity I sold that rifle off and doubt I will ever own another like it.
This is a photo of the rifle (the only one I have) from when I advertised it for sale. It was made in 1898 for a minor member of the English Royal Family and had all the original paperwork as well as the original leather covered oak case. It was ordered as a rifle for tiger hunting when such things were legal. I really wish I still owned that gun. I took it to Africa once but never shot anything with it and that still distresses me.
This is a photo of the rifle (the only one I have) from when I advertised it for sale. It was made in 1898 for a minor member of the English Royal Family and had all the original paperwork as well as the original leather covered oak case. It was ordered as a rifle for tiger hunting when such things were legal. I really wish I still owned that gun. I took it to Africa once but never shot anything with it and that still distresses me.
Last edited by flags; 03-15-2019 at 03:04 PM.
03-15-2019, 12:14 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 984
Oh Flags, can you just imagine if the old man were still with us and he saw that post? Of course he would deny the many extreme cases of stupidity he underwent in selling or trading some of his Euro rifles. But he would surely raz you about your woopsie.
03-16-2019, 07:28 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
Some folks are scope rich, some are scope poor. Only neighborly to share sometimes. Beyond sharing my toys many times over the years, I have also borrowed scopes to test drive before buying my own. So yeah, for multiple reasons, it’s a thing.
