browning 30-06 will not group
 

I have a early 70's browning 30-06 I cant seem to get a good group. It grouped great at the beginning of last year. Around December I dropped it and broke my scope. I bought a new scope and took it to a gunsmith to mount it and to check the gun out. He mounted the scope with new mounts and also took it a part and cleaned it for me. I took it to a indoor range and couldn't get it to group. So i took it back to him and he double checked everything. So again I took it back to the range and still couldn't get it to group. This time I took it to a different gunsmith and they replaced the mounted with a different name brand and used and different scope and still will not group. Any ideas what is the problem. It shot great before I broke the scope. two different scopes, mounts and gunsmith.

Did you change anything else? Different ammo?

It's entirely possible that you had two bad scopes/mounts/smiths... Although unlikely.

Define what kind of groups you're actually getting. Is it all over in an 8" circle at 50 yards or is it at 2" at 100 yards? Is it vertically stringing your shots? Tell us what kind of groups you're seeing and at what distance.

And what kind of groups you had before.

You said you dropped the rifle. I assume the smiths checked the rifle over. But does anything feel loose? Check that the action is mounted firmly into the stock and that nothing is moving around.

-Jake

Before I broke the scope it was shooting a 1" group at 100 yards using a gun sled. now it shots 4' or 5' at 100 yards left and right. No consistency using a 150 grain ammo. Everything seems to be tight and nothing loose.

If it's giving you 4 and 5 FOOT groups, then something has to be loose or broken somewhere.

The scope, bases, action bolts, something isn't right.

If you're positive everything is good you could pull the bolt and look down the barrel with a light to see if it looks straight still. Even a bent barrel probably wouldn't throw shots around like that.

​​​​​​

-Jake

The first thing I would do is examine the rifle myself. How did the rifle land when you dropped it? My initial suspect would be a dinged crown. A damaged crown will wreck havoc on accuracy but an easy fix. It could be something with the bedding of the action. Remove the action from the stock then put it back in and snug up the front action screw. Now push down on the rear of the action. If you can feel ''slop" then you need to have it rebedded. (I really doubt this is the issue from one drop).
And bending a barrel is almost impossible from a drop. I had the wind slam a pick up door shut on my 700 barrel and it didn't phase it.

I've had barrels that were almost completely shot out do way better than that. What I mean by shot out is the lands were severely worn, rounded and almost nonexistant.

Best guess would be some sort of severe crown damage that is damaging the bullet on the way out. I have a rifle now with a noticeable crown ding, it still shoots straight at a hundred yards

A borescope may reveal something. Though if it is shooting that bad the damage would likely be visible with a flashlight and eyeball.

Maybe try different ammo,

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/91...hort-long-trac

it may not be related, but check the replaceable recoil buffer pad condition and replace them if damaged, the browning BAR is gas operated,
and use of slower burning powders does cause extra impact wear issues mandating the pads regular replacement ,
group size tends to get noticeably larger if they are damaged, I doubt this is related but certainly for the under $4 or so they cost replacing one won,t hurt.
personally Id suspect the scope mounts need to be replaced,

a steel one piece base
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...e-browning-bar
decent rings help
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/14...le-rings-matte


IVE had far more of these style linked below,mounts fail
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...ard-scope-base

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...standard-rings

I had a Browning BAR1 in 30-06.

MudderChuck got my most probable cause that could do what you describe - Crown damage. Yet U say no.
Next would be scope rings or the mounts were damaged - Would think between both GSs they would surely have found this problem.
Try an box of 180 Rem CoreLokts and post target. May want to reduce range and increase target size if really 4 foot groups???

"4' or 5' group" at 100 yards or did you mean 4" or 5"?

What brand of ammo are you using?

Let another person try shooting the rifle.

Make sure you have the correct parallax setting on the scope. Try dry-firing the rifle while looking through the scope on the sled.

Lead sleds have been known to be hard on stocks and scopes. I'm wondering if the rifle has an unseen crack in the stock?
You might be putting too much pressure on the forearm of the stock when shooting off the sled. I'm assuming that the barrel is not free floated. Also...you might be putting too much lead weight on the sled, that makes it not slide back some.
I'm also wondering if you picked up a major flinch? If you have...go back to shooting a rimfire or air rifle --- and work that flinch out.

.Make sure you follow through on the trigger press.

I've never shot off of a lead sled. Try shooting another hi-power rifle on the same rest, or shooting off a 12 pound pedestal rest and rear bag with the problem rifle.

Good luck...

Erno

I've shot from lead sheds.
Didn't like'em.
Prefer sand bags.

I've seen two young shooters at the range get 'scope eyed,' by shooting off a lead sled by just crouching and not sitting.

yeah the whole idea of that rifle rest design, is to place a 25 lb bag of shot on that tray too , absorb recoil
these are very functional rifle rests and certainly helpful, but as with everything should be used as designed
and yes used incorrectly, the rifle rest, will result in the operator potentially having problems

I'm with you, never liked them. IMO lead sleds are just to get you on the paper so you can shoot and adjust from there.

I have shot both from shooting sleds and sandbags, both can be fine, as long as you are consistent. Did you have two actual gunsmiths redo your gun, or just two guys who work where they sell guns? Most gunshops I am in nowadays, I wouldn't let them touch mine.
Are you at all comfortable with tooling with our guns? Are the scopes of decent quality and not bargain basement? If so, I would start by removing the scopes, checking all mounts for tightness. Place the scope back in the mounts, (cradle/ clamp the gun in sandbags or a bench so it is level and solid)....check that it is level with a small pocket bubble level. replace the mounts,freq. checking to see the scope itself is still level. tightening them evenly. There is a small scope mount torque wrench sold, but I haven't invested in it yet...probably be a good tool though, if you do a lot of shooting. If the scope is torqued unevenly, it can deform the optics, causing messed up groupings. Someone else mentioned to have someone else tag along, so see how it shoots for them. good idea...we don't always see our own mistakes.
Be sure you are shooting the same brand, type and weight of bullet...I prefer the same lot number also.

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I misspoke earlier. It about 4 or 5 inches off at 100 yards not feet sorry about that. One shot will be 5 inches left of center and the next might be 5 inches right of center. I also have a 270 that I shot and Its on. No problems with it. I have no idea what the gunsmith took off to clean it. He could have completely disassembled it completely and i called him to ask but he doesn't remember. I looked at the crown but I don't see anything wrong. There is no dings or pits as far as i can tell. how can i tell if the stock is the issue or recoil buffer pad. The funny thing is that it shot great and dead on before i dropped it. If is is the crown about how much does is cost to repair it. Thanks again for all the help.

A re-crown is a quick and cheap process. Maybe $50 to have it done.

You can check it yourself by visually inspecting it. Looking for burrs, gouges, nicks, etc. You can also paint the end of your barrel with whiteout and then fire a shot. You should be able to see where gas came out and it should look pretty uniform around the edge of the barrel. If it's noticeably off you could have crown damage.

-Jake

what type of Browning rifle do you have? A-bolt, Medalian, BAR? my brother in law has an A bolt that had a really hard trigger pull. when we were sighting it in we had a hard time because of the amount of pressure used to pull the trigger. like yours, it shot bad groups until he had the trigger worked on.

I believe I paid $75 for a re-crowning of one of my rifles at Duffys Gun Room. As Jake said --- Look at a recently fired muzzle of a gun. It should display an even radius of sharp spear looking carbon deposits around the muzzle crown. If the radius is uneven...you need a re-crown.

A hot barrel and receiver generated, from multiple rounds fired...will have a tendency to spread the groups wider.
There is a stock action bolt torque tightening sequence for two action bolts on a rifle.
Tap the buttstock perpendicular on a carpeted floor to probably set the receiver in the stock. For the torque bolt tightening sequence and poundage might be variable, but I'm guessing that it is the bolt closest to the receiver that you tighten first.
Maybe someone else can explain that better....

This might help some:

https://bisonballistics.com/articles/rifle-action-screws-torque-accuracy-and-bedding-issues

Sure you're shooting .30-06 ammo through it? not .280...or 270 etc...?

factory loads? if handloaded....who knows, I'd check those bullet dia.

That was my first thought when he said 4-5 FOOT groups as well


-Jake

the main problem in trying to accurately diagnose, the most likely source of most problems, posted on the internet forums.
is that your totally dependent on info ,you can,t personally verify and a great deal of the info you need,
is either not specified nor is most of it, accurate.
I've repeatedly found a great deal of the problems posted are the result of both improper component parts like scope mounts, or rings,
installation and a failure of the guys posting to even understand fully the questions asked.
I've had lots of the local guys having problems resolved with a careful dis-assembly, cleaning and careful re-assembly.
loose scope mounts, defective scopes, loose or overly tight action screws badly bedded rifles, and badly fouled bores are common.

Thanks for all the ideas. I checked the crown and it looks good to me, but i'm going to get it checked out again. I'm sure the gunsmith checked already but i"m not sure. I think they should have. Someone said that the forearm nut could be too tight or not torqued correctly could make the grouping bad. Where would that torque nut be located at? I looked it up and I have seen other people have this problem but no one said where it is located. Looks like another trip to the gunsmith.

What rifle are we talking about? Is this a BAR? A pump, a bolt? I may have missed it, but I don't think I saw anywhere that said specifically.

-Jake