Remington 700 sps stainless .300 wsm not grouping
12-03-2018, 10:57 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 2
Remington 700 sps stainless .300 wsm not grouping
I have recently purchased a Remington 700 sps stainless .300 wsm and put a vortex crossfire ll 4x16x50 scope ... I have tried hornady american whitetail 165gr, federal fusion 165gr, federal trophy copper 165gr, and now on federal trophy copper 180gr and am not getting the gun to group like it should ... any input or ammo suggestions?
12-03-2018, 01:51 PM
#2
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
clean the rifle bore carefully verify the scope mounts are rock solid, swap to a different scope as a test, if none of that works look into re-bedding the rifle
remington actions are generally decent, accuracy will vary but you should get a 1"-2" 100 yard group with most commercial ammo.
a dirty bore will frequently produce less than bragging size groups, but modern rifles tend to be rather accurate, cheaper quality, scopes and scope mounts can and do fail,rather regularly,
you might want to take the rifle to a gunsmith for his inspection, and obviously I don,t know how good a shot you are,
but off a decent rest a consistent 2" or hopefully smaller 100 yard group should be rather easy to duplicate,
I would not be overly concerned if the rifle keeps at least a 1.5" 3 shot hundred yard group, off a solid bench rest,
lots of guys obsess over sub 1" groups,consistently,
the 300 WSM has a good reputation for accuracy with the 165-180 grain ammo.
most of those same guys can,t hit a coke can at 100 yards on the first shot,
from a rapidly acquired field position if their lives depended on it!
if your rifle consistently punches holes in a 2" orange dot at 100 yards off the bench rest,
set the impact to hit a couple inches high at 100 yards and go kill game!
everyones a hero off the bench rest, Ive won a wallet full of money on several occasions betting guys I could knock a hole in a coke can, we set out , where I set two about 3 feet apart on some hill side, we set those cans at 150 yard and bet who can punch a hole in his faster, take as many shots as you care too, first exploded coke can wins the bet,
Id bet they could not hit that can from a sitting position, everyone does great off a bench rest, trot 150 yards sit and try to hit a coke can, thats a great deal more related to real world hunting than some bench rest target
and in 50 plus years Ive yet to have a deer or elk complain if the bullet impacted a 1" off the intended point on his vitals
http://www.shootingtimes.com/editori...t_020911/99102
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/new-rifles-disappointing-accuracy.14856/#post-83123
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/do-you-practice-shooting-from-field-positions.9380/#post-71169
remington actions are generally decent, accuracy will vary but you should get a 1"-2" 100 yard group with most commercial ammo.
a dirty bore will frequently produce less than bragging size groups, but modern rifles tend to be rather accurate, cheaper quality, scopes and scope mounts can and do fail,rather regularly,
you might want to take the rifle to a gunsmith for his inspection, and obviously I don,t know how good a shot you are,
but off a decent rest a consistent 2" or hopefully smaller 100 yard group should be rather easy to duplicate,
I would not be overly concerned if the rifle keeps at least a 1.5" 3 shot hundred yard group, off a solid bench rest,
lots of guys obsess over sub 1" groups,consistently,
the 300 WSM has a good reputation for accuracy with the 165-180 grain ammo.
most of those same guys can,t hit a coke can at 100 yards on the first shot,
from a rapidly acquired field position if their lives depended on it!
if your rifle consistently punches holes in a 2" orange dot at 100 yards off the bench rest,
set the impact to hit a couple inches high at 100 yards and go kill game!
everyones a hero off the bench rest, Ive won a wallet full of money on several occasions betting guys I could knock a hole in a coke can, we set out , where I set two about 3 feet apart on some hill side, we set those cans at 150 yard and bet who can punch a hole in his faster, take as many shots as you care too, first exploded coke can wins the bet,
Id bet they could not hit that can from a sitting position, everyone does great off a bench rest, trot 150 yards sit and try to hit a coke can, thats a great deal more related to real world hunting than some bench rest target
and in 50 plus years Ive yet to have a deer or elk complain if the bullet impacted a 1" off the intended point on his vitals
http://www.shootingtimes.com/editori...t_020911/99102
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/new-rifles-disappointing-accuracy.14856/#post-83123
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/do-you-practice-shooting-from-field-positions.9380/#post-71169
Last edited by hardcastonly; 12-03-2018 at 02:28 PM.
12-03-2018, 07:44 PM
#4
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,520
What size groups are you getting.
And are you capable of shooting "good" groups or not?
Check your hardware and make sure everything is tight. If you have an extra scope you can swap it out and see if that changes anything.
Have realistic expectations as well. If it's shooting 6" groups there's a problem, either with the set up or the shooter.
If it's shooting 2" groups, that might be just what the rifle is capable of. That could be improved with some minor work to the rifle.
if it's shooting 1.5" or less then I would call it good.
Guess it depends on what your expectations are vs what the actual groups are measuring.
-Jake
And are you capable of shooting "good" groups or not?
Check your hardware and make sure everything is tight. If you have an extra scope you can swap it out and see if that changes anything.
Have realistic expectations as well. If it's shooting 6" groups there's a problem, either with the set up or the shooter.
If it's shooting 2" groups, that might be just what the rifle is capable of. That could be improved with some minor work to the rifle.
if it's shooting 1.5" or less then I would call it good.
Guess it depends on what your expectations are vs what the actual groups are measuring.
-Jake
12-04-2018, 06:38 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Most rifles will out shoot the shooter. What do the groups look like? Not only size is important but what the groups look like.
Most times it is human error. For instance just for discussion sake lets say the groups shotgun, meaning the are scattered. Most often it is flinch or anticipating the shot.
Sometimes it is how you hold the rifle. Constancy is the key. the hold on your shoulder is part of the recoil. If you hold it tight to your shoulder one shot and loose the next you are going to get poor results.
I've noticed on my rifles how far my eye is from the scope makes a difference and it changes slightly from scope to scope. I can tighten my groups by half a MOA just by getting the right stand off distance from whatever scope I'm using and do it the same every time.
I have a three legged vise, I pad it and put my rifle in there, aim for something at a couple hundred yards. I change magnification and watch the reticle, see if it moves off target slightly. I do the same with focus. And the big one is move your eye farther and closer to your scope and watch the reticle, roll your head a little and see f it moves. There is a sweet spot for most scopes, the eye distance is good when you get too close to the scope, back off until the back ring around the edge just appears. This is my sweet spot (about an inch- inch and a half from my forehead) and if I do it the same every time it seems to tighten my groups.
Another big one is having your groups in a vertical line, I'm pretty sure you know enough to control your breathing. Shooting the rifle hot can also do this, a constant barrel temperature is another constant I pay attention to. I've been know to wait five plus minutes between shots.
Most times it is human error. For instance just for discussion sake lets say the groups shotgun, meaning the are scattered. Most often it is flinch or anticipating the shot.
Sometimes it is how you hold the rifle. Constancy is the key. the hold on your shoulder is part of the recoil. If you hold it tight to your shoulder one shot and loose the next you are going to get poor results.
I've noticed on my rifles how far my eye is from the scope makes a difference and it changes slightly from scope to scope. I can tighten my groups by half a MOA just by getting the right stand off distance from whatever scope I'm using and do it the same every time.
I have a three legged vise, I pad it and put my rifle in there, aim for something at a couple hundred yards. I change magnification and watch the reticle, see if it moves off target slightly. I do the same with focus. And the big one is move your eye farther and closer to your scope and watch the reticle, roll your head a little and see f it moves. There is a sweet spot for most scopes, the eye distance is good when you get too close to the scope, back off until the back ring around the edge just appears. This is my sweet spot (about an inch- inch and a half from my forehead) and if I do it the same every time it seems to tighten my groups.
Another big one is having your groups in a vertical line, I'm pretty sure you know enough to control your breathing. Shooting the rifle hot can also do this, a constant barrel temperature is another constant I pay attention to. I've been know to wait five plus minutes between shots.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 12-06-2018 at 10:29 AM.
12-04-2018, 09:21 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
Everyone above gave you good advice. I would be willing to bet that there is one of two or both things going on here. (besides shooting off a solid rest and putting the barrel and not the forearm on the rest/bags) 1. Improper scope installation or faulty scope. and 2. Inconsistent shooting technique. (rifle position, cheek pressure, grip etc.) Consistency is the key to accuracy not matter what you are shooting.
And as I type this there could be another factor here that you may or may not admit. But it could be that your 300WSM is just too much gun for you and you're flinching slightly. But we will never know that unless we watched you shoot.
And as I type this there could be another factor here that you may or may not admit. But it could be that your 300WSM is just too much gun for you and you're flinching slightly. But we will never know that unless we watched you shoot.
12-04-2018, 09:44 AM
#7
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...-shooting-rest
if you can borrow or purchase a rifle rest like this and throw a 25 lb bag of bird shot on the tray, put in ear plugs and wear ear muffs ,
and then try shooting a couple groups you can eliminate recoil and muzzle blast as potential sources for flinching as both the recoil and noise will be eventually eliminated
a significantly cheaper but less effective option,
lots of guys prefer to use "SAND BAGS" for a rifle rest , these can be fabricated cheaply from old dungaree legs,
or bank coin bags if you have access to a sewing machine and you have minimal skills using it.
(yeah! ideally the wife or girl friend who may be more skilled with a sewing machine can help)
theres several sizes available
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mm...MInavK9J-F2QIVyLfACh1q5gqvEAYYAyABEgKehfD_BwE
12" x 19"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canvas-Bla...in-Sack-Bags-6-5x9-5-Tie-String-/201031030561
6.5" x 9.5"
commercial sand bags, for rifle range use,
tend to be expensive and many people
buy them without realizing most are shipped empty.
most guys are reluctant to fill them with actual sand,
because its both heavy and it absorbs and holds moisture,
almost insuring that mildew/mold over time ruins the bags, or they can leak sand in your home, car, or storage area.
yes I'm well aware that many guys fill zip lock plastic bags,
then, double bag and insert the zip lock sand bags inside the canvas coin bags, to reduce the tendency,
some guys use uncooked rice
(this can attract vermin)
or packing peanuts
(too light and compress over time making the bags nearly useless)
the larger 12"/19" bank coin bags tend to work rather well
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mm....yABEgKehfD_BwE
stuff the bank bags with rubber mulch filled zip lock bags with a 2.5 gallon zip lock bag filed with rubber mulch which is basically fine ground up old tires ,
and you have bags of the correct weight, firmness and these won,t attract vermin when stored,
get the correct fill percentage that allows the contents to be partly redistributed, the contents,
so you can manipulate the height/thickness and then fold the open end of the canvass coin bags and sew or staple shut.
a couple of the larger size coin bags , (bags of the rubber landscaper mulch) used to support the rifle, , under the forearm, one partly under the butt stock, with most of it between your shoulder and the butt stock, to spread and absorb recoil, will also mostly mitigate recoil
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-0...N8CB/203714941
if you can borrow or purchase a rifle rest like this and throw a 25 lb bag of bird shot on the tray, put in ear plugs and wear ear muffs ,
and then try shooting a couple groups you can eliminate recoil and muzzle blast as potential sources for flinching as both the recoil and noise will be eventually eliminated
a significantly cheaper but less effective option,
lots of guys prefer to use "SAND BAGS" for a rifle rest , these can be fabricated cheaply from old dungaree legs,
or bank coin bags if you have access to a sewing machine and you have minimal skills using it.
(yeah! ideally the wife or girl friend who may be more skilled with a sewing machine can help)
theres several sizes available
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mm...MInavK9J-F2QIVyLfACh1q5gqvEAYYAyABEgKehfD_BwE
12" x 19"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canvas-Bla...in-Sack-Bags-6-5x9-5-Tie-String-/201031030561
6.5" x 9.5"
commercial sand bags, for rifle range use,
tend to be expensive and many people
buy them without realizing most are shipped empty.
most guys are reluctant to fill them with actual sand,
because its both heavy and it absorbs and holds moisture,
almost insuring that mildew/mold over time ruins the bags, or they can leak sand in your home, car, or storage area.
yes I'm well aware that many guys fill zip lock plastic bags,
then, double bag and insert the zip lock sand bags inside the canvas coin bags, to reduce the tendency,
some guys use uncooked rice
(this can attract vermin)
or packing peanuts
(too light and compress over time making the bags nearly useless)
the larger 12"/19" bank coin bags tend to work rather well
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mm....yABEgKehfD_BwE
stuff the bank bags with rubber mulch filled zip lock bags with a 2.5 gallon zip lock bag filed with rubber mulch which is basically fine ground up old tires ,
and you have bags of the correct weight, firmness and these won,t attract vermin when stored,
get the correct fill percentage that allows the contents to be partly redistributed, the contents,
so you can manipulate the height/thickness and then fold the open end of the canvass coin bags and sew or staple shut.
a couple of the larger size coin bags , (bags of the rubber landscaper mulch) used to support the rifle, , under the forearm, one partly under the butt stock, with most of it between your shoulder and the butt stock, to spread and absorb recoil, will also mostly mitigate recoil
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-0...N8CB/203714941
Last edited by hardcastonly; 12-04-2018 at 10:21 AM.
12-05-2018, 07:48 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 766
From reading the small number of "less than stellar" customer reviews for the Vortex Crossfire II 4x16x50 AO scope on the Optics Planet website, it's a brand that I lack confidence in.
It's not the 1st time that I have read some complaints about Vortex scopes even though their complaints always seem to be in the minority.
For that model, the repeated complaint is that the AO yardage markings do not match up to the known yardages which the AO is used for focusing, among other complaints.
Because of that, I would tend to suspect the scope and would try mounting another scope before taking the gun to a gunsmith.
I don't know the method that was used to sight in your scope, but that's also suspect whether done properly as the instructions indicate.
IIRC it used to be that you sight in using the highest magnification before any other lower power is used, which could be dependent on the brand I guess.
I'm not knocking Vortex scopes because I know that they're really popular,, but it's not totally uncommon to read complaints about them not holding zero, especially from air rifle shooters
who are often the first to recommend them highly, quite a lot and often because most Vortex customers are very loyal and do love them.
But when they're not up to par or go bad, I've read about it in some of their other scope reviews which also affected my overall opinion about the brand.
Vortex Crossfire II 4x16x50 AO scope reviews:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/reviews...iflescope.html
It's not the 1st time that I have read some complaints about Vortex scopes even though their complaints always seem to be in the minority.
For that model, the repeated complaint is that the AO yardage markings do not match up to the known yardages which the AO is used for focusing, among other complaints.
Because of that, I would tend to suspect the scope and would try mounting another scope before taking the gun to a gunsmith.
I don't know the method that was used to sight in your scope, but that's also suspect whether done properly as the instructions indicate.
IIRC it used to be that you sight in using the highest magnification before any other lower power is used, which could be dependent on the brand I guess.
I'm not knocking Vortex scopes because I know that they're really popular,, but it's not totally uncommon to read complaints about them not holding zero, especially from air rifle shooters
who are often the first to recommend them highly, quite a lot and often because most Vortex customers are very loyal and do love them.
But when they're not up to par or go bad, I've read about it in some of their other scope reviews which also affected my overall opinion about the brand.
Vortex Crossfire II 4x16x50 AO scope reviews:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/reviews...iflescope.html
Last edited by arcticap; 12-05-2018 at 08:08 AM.
12-05-2018, 09:39 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indiana county, Pa
Posts: 681
is the scope new or is it one from another rifle? could be the scope has paralax which you will find out if you set the rifle on a solid base and without touching the rifle look through the scope and slowly move your head from top to bottom and left to right. if the crosshairs seem to move with your eyes then its time to get a new scope. ive had a couple scopes do this and had to replace the scopes. remember that when buying a new scope you get what you pay for. dont be cheap. some scopes might not be able to handle the recoil of a rifle if its a magnum caliber.
12-05-2018, 05:56 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
Some guys really like vortex. Never tried them.
How long between shots? Some guns are more sensitive. Stainless steel is more sensitive.
I'll wait 10-15 minutes between shots when working up loads. Standing the rifle up, with bolt open is supposed to help some.
How long between shots? Some guns are more sensitive. Stainless steel is more sensitive.
I'll wait 10-15 minutes between shots when working up loads. Standing the rifle up, with bolt open is supposed to help some.