Best suppressed cartridge for deer?
09-05-2018, 07:56 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
I again and NOT against them , and I sold a lot of them, but they do NOT work like in the movies, as many folks seem to believe(based on yrs of selling them and hearing what folks think before and after buying)
the paperwork and steps needed to own one, also seem deter a lot of folks as do the rules on where and how you can take them places, as its extra steps needed to use them.
plus they add a bunch of added NOSE weight to a rifle, which also makes many folks less accurate when HAVING to shoot free hand, as in many hunting situations!
MY personal best use for them is and has been TRAINING kids, on small caliber guns, where you can talk easier with them and they hear you, but its all 99% work off a bench
again NOTHING wrong with owning and using one, but when you get into sub sonic ammo and hunting, its NOT the best results on killing game with the low speed ammo needed to stay sub sonic, and at this point, a X bow or BOW is about as well a tool IMO and yes I have killed deer with all 3 items!
09-05-2018, 08:52 AM
#12
Spike
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 41
Seems like using standard ear plugs for hearing protection would be a cheaper and easier approach than using a suppressor. I don't know, maybe that's just my common sense kicking in.
Although, suppressors do reduce recoil and muzzle blast. High-powered rifles produce a great deal of muzzle blast and significant recoil, neither of which is conducive to good shooting. Humans are susceptible to the “overpressure event” of a gunshot, which can cause a flinch when the trigger is pulled: the body knows what’s coming and it reacts to protect itself from the perceived danger. Suppressors reduce the recoil and muzzle blast therefore making rifles easier to shoot accurately: less recoil and blast, less flinch. This means an increased likelihood of an accurate shot, which means a quick and humane demise for the game animal. Even suppressed, guns are still loud. The vast majority of hunting cartridges produce supersonic muzzle velocities, which means that even suppressed, they produce an audible sonic “crack” or “boom.” Therefore, the subsonic might help alleviate some of this.
So there are some small advantages but it's all worthy of weighing the benefits and if it's worth the cost. I hope my post has been some help, I try to do my best without complaining about what others are doing.
Although, suppressors do reduce recoil and muzzle blast. High-powered rifles produce a great deal of muzzle blast and significant recoil, neither of which is conducive to good shooting. Humans are susceptible to the “overpressure event” of a gunshot, which can cause a flinch when the trigger is pulled: the body knows what’s coming and it reacts to protect itself from the perceived danger. Suppressors reduce the recoil and muzzle blast therefore making rifles easier to shoot accurately: less recoil and blast, less flinch. This means an increased likelihood of an accurate shot, which means a quick and humane demise for the game animal. Even suppressed, guns are still loud. The vast majority of hunting cartridges produce supersonic muzzle velocities, which means that even suppressed, they produce an audible sonic “crack” or “boom.” Therefore, the subsonic might help alleviate some of this.
So there are some small advantages but it's all worthy of weighing the benefits and if it's worth the cost. I hope my post has been some help, I try to do my best without complaining about what others are doing.
09-05-2018, 12:14 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 988
While some seem to want to theorize, I speak from experience. I own 7 weapons that are capable of suppressor attachment and have suppressors for them. They are fantastic when hog hunting and equally as great for varmint. I have one on the old man's .458 socom which is a real boomer and it really reduces the blast to almost comfortable levels. I've loaded some sub sonic for a couple of the rifles and also for 9mm and find them just way too weak for hunting purposes. Especially big game. I do like loading them for my 9's for range trigger time. Greatly reduced recoil and no more sweaty ears from muffs. Sadly the state I currently reside in, Illinois, says I can't have them so I have to keep them at a friends in another state. mrbb, today's suppressors are much lighter than those of the past. And reduce the muzzle blast much better and last a lot more shots than they used to also. They really don't load the front up as bad as they did 10 or so years ago.
09-05-2018, 01:09 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
While some seem to want to theorize, I speak from experience. I own 7 weapons that are capable of suppressor attachment and have suppressors for them. They are fantastic when hog hunting and equally as great for varmint. I have one on the old man's .458 socom which is a real boomer and it really reduces the blast to almost comfortable levels. I've loaded some sub sonic for a couple of the rifles and also for 9mm and find them just way too weak for hunting purposes. Especially big game. I do like loading them for my 9's for range trigger time. Greatly reduced recoil and no more sweaty ears from muffs. Sadly the state I currently reside in, Illinois, says I can't have them so I have to keep them at a friends in another state. mrbb, today's suppressors are much lighter than those of the past. And reduce the muzzle blast much better and last a lot more shots than they used to also. They really don't load the front up as bad as they did 10 or so years ago.
but the OP asked about SUB sonic calibers for hunting and even you stated there poor at killing things from what you used?
and I have said that from post one!
yes they do reduce sound and I like that part of them, they also make a gun nose heavy and I dis like that, and the added length, and new one's are smaller than some of the old one's but they have been in many shapes and forms and still are to be honest
and as for added costs, well there is a 200 dollar tax per suppressor, might not mean much to some but to other it might as well, 200 bucks buys some nice SMALL fitted ear suppressors LOL
and they will even ADD hearing level to hear ctitters coming in better
add ZERO disadvantages to ANY gun you own and can be used with ANY gun you own, no need or added costs to tread a barrel,
again I am NOT bashing suppressors I have and use many over the yrs but I don't think when using sub sonic ammo out of any of them there great deer hunting guns at any range a bow/x bow would now work as well !
if all you care about is reducing SOME sound level with one,and using GOOD ammo, then GREAT, they do what they do, BUT they in MOST forms do NOT prevent possible ear damage, yes its lower in DB's but in most big game caliber rifles they still are capable of damaging your hearing without hearing protections
is what it is, and I have a LOT of first hand experience with them(in full autos and semis riles hand guns and even shotguns)
09-05-2018, 01:37 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
Sub-Sonics tend to suck for hunting, no two ways about that. Even shooting 458socom with super heavies, you just aren’t talking about a very impressive impact.
Super-sonic rounds with a can are typically still over the “immediate damage” level, but having shot suppressors for the last 15yrs and having substantial hearing damage from shooting unsuppressed rifles without hearing protection, I can say I don’t even experience ringing in my ears (above my normal all-day-every-day tinnitus) after shooting suppressed without ear pro. Like most shooting, the shooter gets the least blast vs. someone to their sides. So personally, knowing I’m about 125-135dB behind my suppressed rifles, I don’t wear any in-or-on-ear hearing protection when I shoot with my cans.
For my son and any kid I’m instructing, I do use in-or-on-ear hearing protection, ALWAYS with electronic interruption solutions to ensure the kid can hear me. I have often shot with my son with the cans, pointing out the cans as the means of hearing protection - and always being mindful to keep him well behind the muzzle, rather than getting too far to either side.
I’ve gone down the sub-sonic, suppressed route for hunting, it’s a losing game. Larger caliber, smaller case, lower muzzle pressure (Fast burning pistol powders) are the best route - meaning 400-500grn 458socom, 220grn 300blk, etc. Then you get to watch the game run off and track it. It’s MARGINALLY better to shoot a deer with a 500grn subsonic 458socom than a 1911 with 230’s, in terms of anchoring speed. Alternatively, a few shots hunting each season (or a few dozen in the case of predator calling) with a suppressed 300win mag still isn’t enough to really do much damage (mine doesn’t ring my ears).
The day any firearm combination rings my ears - hearing protection or not, I add hearing protection before shooting it again. I’m particular about protecting what I have left, and the volume - and potential damage - for shooting suppressed supersonic without in-or-on-ear protection isn’t sufficient for me to bother.
Super-sonic rounds with a can are typically still over the “immediate damage” level, but having shot suppressors for the last 15yrs and having substantial hearing damage from shooting unsuppressed rifles without hearing protection, I can say I don’t even experience ringing in my ears (above my normal all-day-every-day tinnitus) after shooting suppressed without ear pro. Like most shooting, the shooter gets the least blast vs. someone to their sides. So personally, knowing I’m about 125-135dB behind my suppressed rifles, I don’t wear any in-or-on-ear hearing protection when I shoot with my cans.
For my son and any kid I’m instructing, I do use in-or-on-ear hearing protection, ALWAYS with electronic interruption solutions to ensure the kid can hear me. I have often shot with my son with the cans, pointing out the cans as the means of hearing protection - and always being mindful to keep him well behind the muzzle, rather than getting too far to either side.
I’ve gone down the sub-sonic, suppressed route for hunting, it’s a losing game. Larger caliber, smaller case, lower muzzle pressure (Fast burning pistol powders) are the best route - meaning 400-500grn 458socom, 220grn 300blk, etc. Then you get to watch the game run off and track it. It’s MARGINALLY better to shoot a deer with a 500grn subsonic 458socom than a 1911 with 230’s, in terms of anchoring speed. Alternatively, a few shots hunting each season (or a few dozen in the case of predator calling) with a suppressed 300win mag still isn’t enough to really do much damage (mine doesn’t ring my ears).
The day any firearm combination rings my ears - hearing protection or not, I add hearing protection before shooting it again. I’m particular about protecting what I have left, and the volume - and potential damage - for shooting suppressed supersonic without in-or-on-ear protection isn’t sufficient for me to bother.
09-05-2018, 04:08 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
Sub-Sonics tend to suck for hunting, no two ways about that. Even shooting 458socom with super heavies, you just aren’t talking about a very impressive impact.
Super-sonic rounds with a can are typically still over the “immediate damage” level, but having shot suppressors for the last 15yrs and having substantial hearing damage from shooting unsuppressed rifles without hearing protection, I can say I don’t even experience ringing in my ears (above my normal all-day-every-day tinnitus) after shooting suppressed without ear pro. Like most shooting, the shooter gets the least blast vs. someone to their sides. So personally, knowing I’m about 125-135dB behind my suppressed rifles, I don’t wear any in-or-on-ear hearing protection when I shoot with my cans.
For my son and any kid I’m instructing, I do use in-or-on-ear hearing protection, ALWAYS with electronic interruption solutions to ensure the kid can hear me. I have often shot with my son with the cans, pointing out the cans as the means of hearing protection - and always being mindful to keep him well behind the muzzle, rather than getting too far to either side.
I’ve gone down the sub-sonic, suppressed route for hunting, it’s a losing game. Larger caliber, smaller case, lower muzzle pressure (Fast burning pistol powders) are the best route - meaning 400-500grn 458socom, 220grn 300blk, etc. Then you get to watch the game run off and track it. It’s MARGINALLY better to shoot a deer with a 500grn subsonic 458socom than a 1911 with 230’s, in terms of anchoring speed. Alternatively, a few shots hunting each season (or a few dozen in the case of predator calling) with a suppressed 300win mag still isn’t enough to really do much damage (mine doesn’t ring my ears).
The day any firearm combination rings my ears - hearing protection or not, I add hearing protection before shooting it again. I’m particular about protecting what I have left, and the volume - and potential damage - for shooting suppressed supersonic without in-or-on-ear protection isn’t sufficient for me to bother.
Super-sonic rounds with a can are typically still over the “immediate damage” level, but having shot suppressors for the last 15yrs and having substantial hearing damage from shooting unsuppressed rifles without hearing protection, I can say I don’t even experience ringing in my ears (above my normal all-day-every-day tinnitus) after shooting suppressed without ear pro. Like most shooting, the shooter gets the least blast vs. someone to their sides. So personally, knowing I’m about 125-135dB behind my suppressed rifles, I don’t wear any in-or-on-ear hearing protection when I shoot with my cans.
For my son and any kid I’m instructing, I do use in-or-on-ear hearing protection, ALWAYS with electronic interruption solutions to ensure the kid can hear me. I have often shot with my son with the cans, pointing out the cans as the means of hearing protection - and always being mindful to keep him well behind the muzzle, rather than getting too far to either side.
I’ve gone down the sub-sonic, suppressed route for hunting, it’s a losing game. Larger caliber, smaller case, lower muzzle pressure (Fast burning pistol powders) are the best route - meaning 400-500grn 458socom, 220grn 300blk, etc. Then you get to watch the game run off and track it. It’s MARGINALLY better to shoot a deer with a 500grn subsonic 458socom than a 1911 with 230’s, in terms of anchoring speed. Alternatively, a few shots hunting each season (or a few dozen in the case of predator calling) with a suppressed 300win mag still isn’t enough to really do much damage (mine doesn’t ring my ears).
The day any firearm combination rings my ears - hearing protection or not, I add hearing protection before shooting it again. I’m particular about protecting what I have left, and the volume - and potential damage - for shooting suppressed supersonic without in-or-on-ear protection isn’t sufficient for me to bother.
hunting with sub sonic ammo is NOT a great idea, suppressors have a lot of pro's too, but the op isn't really asking about any of them LOL
which is why I stated, when I read posts like this, I think of poachers looking for help! over anything real shooters/hunters want!
09-05-2018, 07:34 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
I guess I don’t see any indication in the OP’s comments to suggest any nefarious purpose. It’s a pretty common question for someone new to suppressors: anyone can read online that super sonic rounds still aren’t hearing safe, only sub-Sonics are hearing safe, so then by natural logical extension the question is born - what’s the most I can get out of any subsonic round?
I carry a suppressed pistol in my truck, I thoroughly researched hearing safeness levels - and lack thereof - for different ammo while I was waiting for my stamp. Do you suspect I have some nefarious purpose for my Maxim? I’ve also thoroughly researched stopping power of hearing safe load options for my suppressed .458, 6.8, and 5.56 SBR’s (#doublestamps), do you automatically assume I have some criminal intent for my suppressed rifles? I do know I can shoot a coyote in my goat pen from my back door without waking up my 5yr old son with my suppressed 6.8.
Not everyone asking a question about firearm volume - or lack thereof - is intent on breaking the law.
I carry a suppressed pistol in my truck, I thoroughly researched hearing safeness levels - and lack thereof - for different ammo while I was waiting for my stamp. Do you suspect I have some nefarious purpose for my Maxim? I’ve also thoroughly researched stopping power of hearing safe load options for my suppressed .458, 6.8, and 5.56 SBR’s (#doublestamps), do you automatically assume I have some criminal intent for my suppressed rifles? I do know I can shoot a coyote in my goat pen from my back door without waking up my 5yr old son with my suppressed 6.8.
Not everyone asking a question about firearm volume - or lack thereof - is intent on breaking the law.
09-06-2018, 06:13 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
I guess I don’t see any indication in the OP’s comments to suggest any nefarious purpose. It’s a pretty common question for someone new to suppressors: anyone can read online that super sonic rounds still aren’t hearing safe, only sub-Sonics are hearing safe, so then by natural logical extension the question is born - what’s the most I can get out of any subsonic round?
I carry a suppressed pistol in my truck, I thoroughly researched hearing safeness levels - and lack thereof - for different ammo while I was waiting for my stamp. Do you suspect I have some nefarious purpose for my Maxim? I’ve also thoroughly researched stopping power of hearing safe load options for my suppressed .458, 6.8, and 5.56 SBR’s (#doublestamps), do you automatically assume I have some criminal intent for my suppressed rifles? I do know I can shoot a coyote in my goat pen from my back door without waking up my 5yr old son with my suppressed 6.8.
Not everyone asking a question about firearm volume - or lack thereof - is intent on breaking the law.
I carry a suppressed pistol in my truck, I thoroughly researched hearing safeness levels - and lack thereof - for different ammo while I was waiting for my stamp. Do you suspect I have some nefarious purpose for my Maxim? I’ve also thoroughly researched stopping power of hearing safe load options for my suppressed .458, 6.8, and 5.56 SBR’s (#doublestamps), do you automatically assume I have some criminal intent for my suppressed rifles? I do know I can shoot a coyote in my goat pen from my back door without waking up my 5yr old son with my suppressed 6.8.
Not everyone asking a question about firearm volume - or lack thereof - is intent on breaking the law.
and I am going to guess the last two post are directed at me
so I will stand my ground and RESTATE that I DIDN"T accuse the OP for wanting to do anything illegal, I even said so in one of my post here
BUT after MANY MANY MANY yrs of running a gun shop that sold suppressors , being about the shooting industry for a LONG time and being asked a LOT of questions by real people about these things, I have a LOT of first hand experience with WHY many want them, and sadly a LOT want them for illegal reasons, NOT ALL, but many, and when they get into SUB sonic ammo for SHOOTING DEER< even more so, as MOST all intelligent ethical hunters and shooters already KNOW or learn fast that sub sonic ammo is pi$$ poor choice for shooting game, so, those that tend to want to use it, also tend to fall into a category of those that tend to want to do things OFF the books.
SO I stand by what I have stated, and NEVER accused the OP of being this way, just said MY personal experince with those that ask like questions have alternative motives more than just NOT wanting to hear a gun go bang or ring there ears!
how many of you have worked and sold these things to have experience in thousands of customers asking ?? I do? and consider that experience more than the average guy has here! so, don't like me or what I post, sorry, its a big world out there, no one says you have to like me or what I post, but doesn;t change MY opinion at all !
Last edited by mrbb; 09-06-2018 at 06:17 AM.
