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Champlain Islander 07-19-2018 04:55 AM

Best gun/ caliber for a youth
 
My grandson has turned 12 and just passed his hunter safety classes and has his lifetime Vermont hunting license. His dad has a handed down 30-30 and was thinking of giving it to his son for deer hunting. Giving an old hammer gun to a youth isn't the best choice IMO due to the possible safety issue. I know with proper safe handling practices that gun is safe but seeing how he is only 12 my choice would be a compact bolt action with some decent glass in something along the lines of a .243 or possibly 7MM-08. Both my son in law and I want to do all we can to make sure he enjoys hunting and doesn't have a bad experience.

hardcastonly 07-19-2018 05:07 AM

with a bit of proper training and experience theres not a darn thing wrong and several advantages to using a lever action, both my sons started out using a marlin 1894/44 mag with zero issues
the guns a tool its the craftsman that needs the skill and experience

Champlain Islander 07-19-2018 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by hardcastonly (Post 4338550)
with a bit of proper training and experience theres not a darn thing wrong and several advantages to using a lever action, both my sons started out using a marlin 1894/44 mag with zero issues
the guns a tool its the craftsman that needs the skill and experience

I agree with all of the above but just want to see him start out with the best option therefore the question.

Gm54-120 07-19-2018 05:18 AM

Another caliber worth considering is 6.8SPC but bolt guns are hard to come by now. Only Ruger and Remington offered them as far as i know. Thompson Center had barrels in 6.8 for the Encore. That is what a friend's son uses.

elkman30 07-19-2018 05:23 AM

You can't really go wrong with either 243 or 7mm-08. Both are great calibers for hunting with minimal recoil. If you want to reduce the felt recoil for the 30-30, try one of the Limb saver pads. They make slip-on pads so you don't have to alter the gun. On the safety issue, I've never had an issue with an older Winchester 94 I own (made in the 50's) but then I'm really careful when I carry it. There's a few gunsmiths on here that can probably give you a much better answer on that.

Champlain Islander 07-19-2018 05:28 AM

The grandson is growing like a weed but doesn't carry much weight and will always have a slender build. I want him to enjoy target shooting now with a addition of deer hunting when he is ready. Our topography for hunting is a mix of both open spaces along fields and meadows, hardwoods with good visibility and then the dense swamps and thickets where deer like to stay. I am thinking a compact bolt rifle with some decent glass would be a good start to what I hope is a lifelong gun collection for him. A 30-30 would be something I would like in my collection but I probably would elect to hunt with something else as being my personal choice. I have a safe full of guns that I enjoy shooting but don't use them all for hunting. I am sure that 30-30 will be given to him eventually.

Gm54-120 07-19-2018 05:41 AM

Savage has a model 11/16 light weight hunter rifle. Barrel swapping on a Savage is a breeze compared to other bolt action so the potential to "grow" is there. Custom quality barrels are plentiful too.

Under 6lbs
20" barrel
Calibers you listed as well as 6.5

Big Uncle 07-19-2018 09:02 AM

If it was my choice of a rifle for a young fellow that would make him proud and keep for life, either a Winchester Featherweight or Remington Model 7 (or Mountain Rifle) would make sense. It is fairly easy to find stocks with reduced LOP for the Remington for his current use. Top it with a nice 3x9 like the latest Leupold offering or similar. A .243 would fill the bill nicely for now and give you a good reason to buy another rifle in a few years if he wishes to hunt game larger than deer.

In a perfect world I would choose a .257 Roberts over a .243 but rifles chambered in that cartridge have become hard to find unless you want to play the Kimber lottery.

Of course there are some good choices in more budget friendly rifles that might be suitable.

hunters_life 07-19-2018 11:51 AM

My very first rifle, other than the traditional .22lr, was a .243 but I was significantly younger than your grandson. My twins are proud carriers of 7mm-08's that the old man built for them. They are also a good bit younger than your grandson but are both built like small tanks. Recoil of the 7mm-08 is just a touch more than .243 but it's a caliber/cartridge that they can hunt anything up to and including elk. Whereas the .243 would be on the lite side for elk. Not saying you couldn't use one for them as one can kill an elk with a .22 but one shouldn't for ethical reasons. But if he is going to be limited to whitetail for a few years unless grandpa takes him on his elk hunt then a .243 would be a fine choice. But if grandpa is a super nice grandpa and might take him on one of his elk hunts, I'd have a 7mm-08 in his hands loaded with some 139 grain hornady interlocks with a range out to 250 yards for elk. Guilt trip delivered, my job is done.

mrbb 07-19-2018 01:34 PM

if the boy is of a smaller size, maybe a single shot for the first gun, and then upgrade as he grows up?

I r=had a gun shop, and best advice I can tell you is have the BOY hold as many rifles as he can, they all do NOT fit the same , just cause you like something doesn't mean he will too
Biggest issue I have with YOUTH guns, is they never seem to actually make them youth friendly as they can!
the trigger to grip distance is almost ALWAYS the same as on a FULL sized rifle, and the point of a youth rifles , they have small hands, and fingers, NOT just arms and legs
why more MFG"s don't fit thee guns better I find crazy, there missing the boat so to speak when it shoudn't be that hard to correct!
some makers/model guns do make them better than others
so again, I suggest taking buy to a fe shops and have him hold as many as he can and go from there, any mid caliber shoudl be fine
.243-7mm08 are great one's too IMO and calibers most youth rifles all come in too

mounting man 07-19-2018 11:02 PM

Champlain I, I back you %100 on the 30-30 lever not being a starter rifle for a youngster just learning .
There is a lot for a young person to think about in the spur of the moment of seeing a game animal ? It doesn't seem like much to us older gun handlers but that hammer use has to be really embedded in a persons mind.
A bolt action is better to train them with. IMHO,it is easier to train them for a thumb safety to slide then to move their whole hand to lower a trigger .

Champlain Islander 07-20-2018 01:28 AM

Thanks everyone for all the good advice. I just want my grandson to develop a love for shooting and hunting and don't want to ruin it by either doing something that discourages/ burns him out like a gun with too much recoil or giving him a gun that just isn't right. The concept of using a hammer does come second nature to me since I have used them quite a bit but I also have seen people either at the range or in the woods who didn't have a clue and caused an AD. Not the guns fault just the idiots who used them improperly. I am sure I could teach him how to handle that gun right but think there might be a better first gun for him.

JagMagMan 07-20-2018 07:56 AM

I agree with Champlain Islander's original thoughts and also Mounting Man! I know I'll catch some flak but, I don't feel that the 30-30 is the best gun to start youngster's out with. A single-shot rifle would not be my first choice either, as most of them use a hammer like the lever actions do, and they are lighter than bolt actions,so you will have more recoil. (Probably not enough to be a real issue though)
Other than that, any good bolt action, in .243 or 7MM-08 that can be later modified for LOP, will be a gun he can use for life!

Mykey 07-21-2018 04:55 AM

The calibers mentioned are all great calibers and would certainly fit the bill. I went through the same ordeal with my daughter and started her off at age 9 with a Rem youth model .243 and she used it for one season and killed a couple deer with it. For her 10th birthday I bought her a Rem model 7 in .260 rem and she used it until she was 15. She wanted a full size rifle so I bought her a Rem 700 SPS chambered in .260 rem and she's still using it today at age 18. The .260 rem is a mild recoiling caliber, it's accurate and she shoots it very well as does my wife. We handload for her rifle but looking around on the web it appears that factory loaded ammo is easier to find for the .260 than it use to be. Mike

Champlain Islander 07-21-2018 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by Mykey (Post 4338731)
The calibers mentioned are all great calibers and would certainly fit the bill. I went through the same ordeal with my daughter and started her off at age 9 with a Rem youth model .243 and she used it for one season and killed a couple deer with it. For her 10th birthday I bought her a Rem model 7 in .260 rem and she used it until she was 15. She wanted a full size rifle so I bought her a Rem 700 SPS chambered in .260 rem and she's still using it today at age 18. The .260 rem is a mild recoiling caliber, it's accurate and she shoots it very well as does my wife. We handload for her rifle but looking around on the web it appears that factory loaded ammo is easier to find for the .260 than it use to be. Mike

My friend Rob got his 12 year old daughter a Remington model seven in 7mm-08. She is deadly with it and now she is all grown up and still using it. Great gun.

Nomercy448 07-22-2018 05:56 AM

If I were designing a “starter rifle” for a youngster - although 12 is pretty capable - I would look for an 18-20” sporter barrel bolt gun in a Remington 700/Howa 1500 (or mini) weight action, adjustable stock (up and out), in something middle of the road like 6.5 Grendel to 243win, threaded muzzle for either a brake or a linear compensator.

I go back and forth on what I think should be done for legacy and heirloom planning. In general, a kid will want something new eventually, so sometimes it doesn’t make sense to spend too much on the first rifle. Alternatively, some models could be restocked or adjusted to fit a kid as they grow, and handing a rifle down from one generation to the next is a grand tradition. One easy mistake is to put too much rifle on them, either in weight, size, or recoil, such they don’t really enjoy the rifle and either don’t enjoy shooting at all, or can’t wait to get something else.

In general, I wouldn’t recommend a .30-30 for a first rifle, but I can absolutely appreciate the interest in handing down a legacy. If the kid likes the rifle, then maybe father and son (and grandpa?) could plan a hog hunting trip to put the rifle to good use, instilling a sense of legacy in the rifle and making memories together at the same time. I handed down my grandpa’s/dad’s single shot .410 to my son. It had 3 generations of use and abuse all over it - extreme neglect before I got ahold of it - so I refinished it, replaced broken parts, bought a new barrel to cut down for youth use, and two new stock sets; one to fit my son now, one for when he grows into a full LOP. I also spent money to rebarrel and rescope my first deer rifle to make it more useful for my son when he gets big enough to manage a Ruger weight rifle with the recoil of a .30-06.

For my son, I have a 5.56 SBR build planned, plus a Remington 700 short action. He’ll get the PT&G 700 first, running a single shot insert and a short stock, with a 16” barrel in 6 Dasher, and a low magnification red dot on top. As he grows, it’ll get a new barrel in whatever cartridge he prefers, a new stock, and a new scope. It’ll be expensive, but it’ll grow with him.

Champlain Islander 07-22-2018 06:55 AM

Lots of great information there NM448. LOL I am in death valley and you are at the summit of Mount Everest when it comes to all things guns. Nice to have some experts on the site.

Nomercy448 07-22-2018 07:26 AM

I just think too many folks have gotten used to the paradigm where we buy what is on the shelf, regardless of how well it fits our frame or fits our wants and needs.

A few short generations ago, it was more common for sportsmen to access gunsmiths much like a mechanic or watchmaker. If something didn’t work quite right or fit quite right, they’d have it changed. Guns were few and craftsmen worked cheap. Then labor costs went through the roof, and skill fell off, so sportsmen got used to living with what the factories offered, instead of making their firearms their own. Now we’re seeing a bit of the reverse pendulum swing, going back to more customization - but the manufacturers are answering with broader model offerings.

I’m a firm believer in this: if what you want can’t be found on a shelf, build it. I’m also a believer in customization over replacement. Doing both of these gives the sportsman a closer intimacy to the firearm. Sort of a twist on the mantra: “this is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine...” but with even more personal sentimentality, because there AREN’T many like it when you build something just how you want.

Champlain Islander 07-22-2018 08:26 AM

Seems I remember SuperHunt 54 felt the same way. I miss him .....may he RIP.

flags 07-22-2018 01:12 PM

Pretty hard to go wrong with a 7mm-08 but there are a couple of golden oldies that would also be good. Either a 257 Roberts or a 6.5x55 Swede would also be really good with my nd going to the Swede. It is a very light recoiling round and it is extremely effective on game. I have a Rem Model 700 Classic in the Swede and it is my favorite gun for pronghorns. Normally I handload for just about everything but the Seller & Belloit factory 131 gr round is so accurate in my rifle that I have never found a handload that will beat it. So I laid in 500 rounds of that ammo and called it good.

Everyone forgets about the golden oldies for some reason.

Champlain Islander 07-22-2018 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by flags (Post 4338810)
Pretty hard to go wrong with a 7mm-08 but there are a couple of golden oldies that would also be good. Either a 257 Roberts or a 6.5x55 Swede would also be really good with my nd going to the Swede. It is a very light recoiling round and it is extremely effective on game. I have a Rem Model 700 Classic in the Swede and it is my favorite gun for pronghorns. Normally I handload for just about everything but the Seller & Belloit factory 131 gr round is so accurate in my rifle that I have never found a handload that will beat it. So I laid in 500 rounds of that ammo and called it good.

Everyone forgets about the golden oldies for some reason.

257 Roberts always piqued my interest since I remember that cartridge featured in many of the gun articles I read way back when. Never shot a gun with that caliber and don't know anyone that hunts with one. From what I understand it is one of the old... all time perfect deer calibers. It seems to me that all that odd caliber fan base is centered around 7MM-08 these days. Deer guns here in Vermont run pretty much along .270, 308 or 30-06 which are all on the upper end of what is considered suitable for deer. In my hunting trips I normally have seen the smaller .243 or .260 type weapon outside of New England.

hardcastonly 07-22-2018 02:50 PM

I was originally less than impressed when one of the guys I hunt with brought his elderly dad with us on an elk hunt, but it turned out to be very interesting.
one of the guys I've hunted with for decades DAD, is now in his late 80s and still hunts with his 257 roberts blr.
, but back when we hunted he was in mid 60s then, but looked like he was 90, and I was in my late 50-s,
I've seen him take two elk with a single shot each using a BLR in 257 roberts (speer 100 grain bullets, 45 grains of h4350 and a 215 fed primer))
the first was at about 230 yards , that small bull,elk was hit and ran about 50 yards but just went nose first in the dirt.( lower edge ,heart shot raked forward exited front lower chest)
the second was shot in thick timber at about 60 yard, it looked like he missed, then after he got lined up to take a second shot but before he fired, the elk just collapsed where it stood,( punched thought liver and into lung no exit)

Erictheguy 09-14-2018 04:32 PM

7mm-08 is great for hunting with minimal recoil. Got this one for my nephew who wanted to start learning how to hunt and this is what I recommend that he get.

EShoreMD 09-15-2018 04:43 PM

I apologize if I missed this but how does HE feel about recoil? When I was 12 I would shoot a 12g till my shoulder was black and blue.

What has he shot so far?

Get a few different calibers rounded up from friends and family and let him shoot and decide.

Another possible choice I haven't seen mentioned is a 25-06. Good luck and keep us posted.

Bocajnala 09-15-2018 05:32 PM

I missed this thread the first time around as I was gone for some training. But wanted to comment now.

I like the idea of starting a youth out with a rifle they can be proud of and something they can carry and eventually pass to their kids if they choose to. The downside to that is #1 the price and #2 there will be bumps and bruises to the rifle as part of learning how to handle a rifle.

I like the Remington model 7 and I like the Ruger 77 compacts. Anything in the .243, 7mm-08, .308 range would be fine . Twelve year olds aren't all built the same. At twelve I was shooting 12 gauges and .30-06s. although my deer rifle options were a .44 mag or a .30-30 lever. But some kids are more recoil sensitive than others .

Proper fit and proper form are very important.

Here's two Rugers and a model 7






-Jake

billyboy 09-15-2018 07:32 PM

I think a rifle in 260 Remington or my favorite 7mm-08 ,recoil not bad and both are good 250 to 300 yard guns. JMO

hunters_life 09-16-2018 06:10 PM

So what was the outcome? Give us the details that came from the picking of our little minds? Except for Nomercy448, not a dang thing small about that guys mind. What did you end up getting for the little guy?

Bocajnala 09-17-2018 04:18 AM


Originally Posted by hunters_life (Post 4342038)
So what was the outcome? Give us the details that came from the picking of our little minds? Except for Nomercy448, not a dang thing small about that guys mind. What did you end up getting for the little guy?


I've learned more from reading NM's posts over the years on this forum than I've learned from the pile of magazines I subscribe to each month.

I should probably just start sending him a check too. There's just some people that when they talk, you better listen to what they have to say cause you're going to learn something from it. Your father was one of those as well.
​​​​​​-Jake


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