Could this save Remington?
 

Now that they're filing for bankruptcy, I wonder if they can save it.

I understand that their quality went disastrously bad several years ago.

Would this work? Savage was near death at one point in the late eighties, early nineties and they cut out production of every firearm but the model 110 rifle. It was the only gun that they could profitably make and so they ditched everything else and kept only enough workers to run that line.

Remington does have the 870 shotgun, and the 700 rifle. Could they do something like that around those?

Maybe this is a result of all the lawsuits they've had to settle and ones yet to come. I bet their operating profits are healthy.

I doubt it, right now they have a lot of competition from companies that are making better quality rifles for less money than Remington. They have been trying to live on their laurels and it hasn't worked. You can't live on your name when your name when people have lost confidence in the name.

I've shot Remington Model 700s for years. But I admit that I haven't looked at any new ones for at least 15 years. My 7mm Mag has been knocking over deer and elk since 1977, my 6.5x55 Swede has been dropping deer and pronghorn since the early 1980's and my 375 H&H has been wollaping the bigger stuff since the mid 1980's. The last newer Rems I handled were a 7mm Mag and a 243 my late father bought about 2003 or so.

My days of running out and buying new rifles or shotguns is over. What I have is what I will hunt with until I can no longer go and then they will pass to my nephews.

That is one of the downsides to making and selling hunting firearms. If they are made well they are good for generations. I am pretty sure I won't be buying any more because I don't need any more, I didn't need as many as I have.

The last Remington I bought was in 2013, the year my Grandson was born. That year they came out with the stainless CDL Classic, in 6MM Rem. The 6MM is my favorite deer caliber and since it was the year he was born, I had to have it! It will be his one day. It is a well made gun and accurate too. I understand that there was a recall on the trigger, but mine works fine so I've never sent it in!

Agreed, and there's an ironic element to it. They were bought out by people who were businessmen but did not know firearms or firearms customers. Customers expect guns to last that long. Some of their products (especially the 770), look to be built on the principle of a person buying a new one when it wears out. (planned obsolescence, if i know my business terms). Gun people want and expect guns to last forever with cleaning and a wipedown of oil.

Few years ago I purchased a 1187 20ga SPS, now I love the gun and it's damn accurate. I don't use it often but I took it to the range to check the zero as I do all my slug guns in the spring. Well on this day, the action wouldn't close. I called Remington, they gave me two options send it back to them or take it to a authorized Remington gunsmith for repairs, submit the bill to Remington for re-imburstment . I decided to take it to a gunsmith, once the the repair got complete I faxed over the repair bill with the the original authorization #, Remington contacted me the very same day and said they "WILL NOT COVER REPAIR COST" as it's owners fault. It's clear the action bar broke, and fault was weak metal. I went back to gunsmith, he called Remington right in front of me on speaker phone and explained to them it's NOT the owners fault, they once more refused. I will never purchase a new Remington.

Now I know why they didn't pay for repairs, NO MONEY

Sorry about your experience, Bowhuntercop. That would infuriate anyone.

Virtually everything I've heard about Remington the last several years has been bad. The one exception was some good reports on the Remington 783 as an entry rifle. I have no experience with the gun, though.

I don't know what their future is, but there are lots of old 700s around, and they are great rifles..


-Jake

Years ago every gun I owned was a Remington. Today, except for a couple old 700s and 870s, I've replace them with what I consider better quality firearms like Browning, Tikka and CZ.

Remington has already reached an agreement with its creditors to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy because of its $950 million debt.

Remington has faced a HUGE decline in sales and the credit rating firms Remington relies on say this decline is due to consumers fears that firearms will become more heavily regulated by the government.

President Trump says he will never, ever infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. But since Trump’s election in Nov 2016, American Outdoor Brands Corp (Remington) has lost almost TWO-THIRDS of its stock market value. Even companies like Sturm Ruger have stock falling 25%.

Remington will get $145 million in bankruptcy financing to fund the company through bankruptcy but they plan to file in bankruptcy court in Delaware to write off about $700 million in debt.

Now keep in mind that Cerberus Capital Management LP is a private firm that controls Remington and they will lose all their ownership in the bankruptcy. Then the biggest creditors (Franklin Templeton and JPMorgan) will get equity in the company for the monies owed them.

What will happen with these folks in charge is the question. Will they get new management teams in place and continue production with a new or streamlined plan? Or will they search out a buyer?

Here is real interesting info. Remington lost some investors after one of its Bushmaster rifles was used in the Sandy Hook school shooting in 2012 that killed 20 children and six adults. After the shooting, Cerberus tried unsuccessfully to sell Remington, then known as Freedom Group, after coming under pressure from some of its private equity fund investors.

Cerberus’ Chief Exec considered a bid for Remington to stoke interest in the gunmaker from other potential acquirers in 2012. In 2015, Cerberus offered a mechanism to its fund investors that wanted to drop Remington, such as the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, to sell their stakes back to the company. INTERESTING that the teachers union are invested in firearms, huh?

Keep in mind American Outdoors Brand Corp has a lot of product lines to support whatever may or may not happen with Remington.
Smith & Wesson
Thompson Center
Gemtech
Crimson Trace
Bog-Pod
Caldwell Shooting Supplies
Franklin Arsenal
Golden Rod
Hooyman
Imperial
Keygear
Lockdown
Non-Typical Wildlife Solutions
Old Timer
Shrade
Tipton
Uncle Henry
Bubba Blade
Wheeler Engineering

Another thing to consider is Remington ammo. It may be that Remington makes more money from ammunition sales than firearms.

Remington did not listen to the demands of the market.


30 years ago, people wanted wood and steel, a rifle that would last forever, and that would be handed down through the generations. Remington made some of those, and developed a loyal customer base.


Today the market has two categories.


The first is the people who want low priced and accurate. (Notice I didn't say JUNK here)
The second is the people who are willing to pay to get exactly what they want (these are the people buying customs, semi customs, and the higher end factory rifles.


For the most part Remington lands in the middle of these two categories.


The people who have money, don't really want an off the shelf CDL. The people who don't have money, also don't want to pay 800-1200 for a 700.


Remington made some ADLs that were cheaper but still good quality. I have one that shoots very well.


Remington's entry level rifles were basically junk. You never heard anything good about the 710s,770s. I've heard some good things about their new 783 but I haven't shot or held one myself.


Even in the 700s you typically hear that other manufacturers are more accurate out of the box. Probably more rifle builds are done on 700 actions, but the out of the box accuracy is lacking compared to other (cheaper) options if the internet reviews are to be believed.


-Jake

The old man was a Winchester fan as am I. But he did build a few rifles on 700 actions. Many many more on Mauser actions though. The smokeless ML I finished up is built around a 700 single shot shorty. Have to say it is a fine action but it's more of a custom job. The old man traded 2 Mauser actions for it. Basically, all gun makers in America are experiencing much lower sales at the moment because there aren't as many chicken littles yelling the sky is falling with Trump in office. Obama was the best gun salesman in our time.

I still have 4 Model 700s in 7mm Mag, 6.5x55 Swede, 375H&H and a 54 cal Muzzleloader. But for the last few years all I have used is a CZ Model 550 American in 9.3x62 Mauser. It does everything I need a rifle to do.

Of course it's believable that gun stocks are down while other parts of the economy are doing great! Obozo was the greatest gun salesman of all time! The fear of a Hildabeast presidency was a major boost too! Ironically, now that we have the most pro-gun president since Reagan, gun sales are dropping!:patriot:

Our firm occasionally has to deal with corporate bankruptcy issues and it is usually either the end of a corporation or the best thing for them.

In this case Remington is asking the current creditors to exchange debt for equity. This would remove 700 million dollars of debt from the balance sheet and also remove the interest expense on that debt from the income statement. The interest on 700 million dollars is a very large amount and it's removal should return the corporation to profitability. The current creditors would step into the position of ownership.

A bankruptcy of this type is for protection from creditors while the corporation is reorganizing under the watchful eye of the courts. The creditors will often have great incentive to see the corporation come out of this in good shape if they ever want to be paid. Although sometimes it is a hopeless situation and the best thing for the creditors is to see the corporation dissolve and pick the bones, that does not look like the case here.

Whatever the new equity group might do with the corporation is of course unclear but my bet is that they will want to sell their equity interests after the reorganization. I think that Remington will eventually come out of this as a stronger and more efficient organization.

If they are going to come out of it, they better go back to quality over cheap. They made their bones with the 760 and the MOD 700, then they they started to slowly go down hill, all the while other companies were coming out with less expensive better quality firearms. Of course then their was the discharges upon closing the bolt that they refused to acknowledge until too much damage was doe to the brand. They took over Marlin and ruined that brand. They have some high hurdles to climb over to stage a comeback.

I don't believe Marlin has been "ruined" though their quality surely isn't what it used to be. I think they have come back from the initial takeover mess and the rifles they are now making, though nowhere near the craftsmanship and detail of the past years, are pretty fair rifles for the money. Sadly I can't say the same for Remington rifles. Even while being owned by the same parent company, Marlin stepped away from Remington in in their quality control department. Of course comparing my old .30-30 made back in the 50's and one of my .444's made around 2010 or so brings a small tear to the eye if one looks deep at the attention to detail Marlin used to put into each rifle.

I'd think they'd want a solid entry level rifle, though, if nothing else to help get first time buyers favorable to their products. They might have it in the 783.

Do they make an AR-15 type of gun? That's where the market is going.

They have their "Modern Sporting Rifle" The R15

-Jake

My dad has one of the R-15's. It's pretty effective, and really came into the market before everyone and their brother was making a free-float AR. But they may have dug themselves into a niche simply because of aesthetics---the tactical folks have a taste for tactical patterns, not hunting camo.
On a separate note, I wasn't compelled by Remington's recent handgun offerings. They seemed like a waste of marketing power.

All my rifles are Remington's ,older 700's. Extremely accurate. My shot guns also are Remington,with the Exception of my new savage 220 slug gun. It is the newest weapon I have purchase in a long time,like many have said you buy a quality weapon it's going to last you a lifetime. I was hesitant buying a Savage, to me it seemed like a cheap gun but as far as accuracy it is top notch, as far as the operation of the bolt and the safety it is not ,top notch. Seems like everything these days is sub par,they cut back on quality to lower the price. Or it is sourced out to some foreign country to save cost. I find myself sounding like my parents complaining about when a loaf of bread cost 5 cents. But if a company supplies a quality product it will be rewarded with a loyal following of customers that will stand behind them and that will get them customers from word of mouth. I am a full time taxidermist for over thirty years. All the advertising in the world will not help you if you have one person saying your product sucks. But having someone saying your product is good will have people knocking at your door.

I heard all the garbage about quality being poor now. However I have bought 2 new Remington products in the last 4 years and can not complain about either of them. I do believe most of the trouble is in the trigger repair and law suits. To that I have heard that their trigger had problems since the day it was brought out why is it just an issue now. When I say brought out this goes back to the early 60's I believe.

What HOPEFULLY COULD HAPPEN, but won't...

Remington being held by Freedom/Cerberus is sub-ideal, they're an anti-gun organization, profiteering from a legacy asset. In bankruptcy during a high market, they could hypothetically be picked up by someone who will be a more beneficial steward of the legacy, carrying it into the future.

Remington has a lot of products which do compete in their respective classes, and they do have solid performers. The R-15 and 25 are good players in their class, then they brought out the 700 Magpul and now the PCR to stay relevant in the new trend of "precision long range" competitive rifles. The Sendero II may not be the old Sendero we used to know, nor the 700P the same PSS, but they're still about as good as it gets in factory offerings. Other brands have come a long way to catch up to Remington, which is fair and fine to say, but the 700 remains a contender in any conversation about bolt action rifles. Customer service, even under Freedom/Cerberus, remains to be great, minus a few disgruntled folks who can't be pleased. Given proper stewardship of a new strategic leader, Remington could continue to enjoy thorough growth and ample prosperity in the future.

Unfortunately, I would expect the company is large enough such when the dust settles, it will either have been picked up by another holding house, or distributed into divested business segments, shutting down or parting off different lines into different companies, leaving the legacy to be fractured and distorted by any number of strategic leaders with any number of different visions for their respective directions...

Long post on IMO quality among brands
 

My last Rem was a 770 nearly 11 years ago "I think". It is and has been what I call my truck gun and has spent more time in the quad cab on rear floor than in the front seat. It's my beater rifle that goes everywhere rain snow or shine. It was the biggest piece of junk outside being extremely accurate until I got serious about making it a "shooter", all done myself. A little polishing here and there, a serious trigger adjustment (those were heavy lawsuit days when it was sold, a 7+lb trigger pull is stupid) and a stock for it and it's still the "truck gun", see the attached image.

As far as Remington, I still think their product OK especially in the blueing, steel used, etc. but seriously believe they're in trouble and I hate to see it.

I love my Savage in .300WSM but honestly it's too fast for most deer huntingand their blueing sucks. I still use it hunting in very open country at longe range Mulies but it's either my REM7600 '06 purchased 34 years ago? or the truck gun that typically accompany me when taking a jaunt into the brush or timber.

Will Remington go away? Financial advisers can tell you better than I, but the fact that so many "posters" are going the CZ route doesn't bode well for them. Their handgun campaign was a joke IMO, their screw up with their early Marlin purchase was abominable! To make Marlins without a fit and finish? REALLY? The mildly old 336's were the gold standard of .30-30/.35's in mid to late seventies and early 80's, subject only to the really old win 94's. Savage quality has declined (compared to the 99 days) yet accuracy and being able to modernize (their bolt guns) has gone up.

Will Remington survive? Probably, and I knew a VP personally as I guided along side him one summer back in the hay-days for them.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has stock "numbers"/"worth" from the parent companies of the most popular gun vendors from 2013 as compared to 2018/present

Sorry for the long drawn out post.

REM7600.