Remington 770 - Already own it ?
10-11-2017, 07:12 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
Remington 770 - Already own it ?
I know how many forum questions there are on the 770. I've used the search function...but I have a different dilemma. I already own a 770 in .243 (still with the crappy factory scope). I recently went antelope hunting and injured a huge pronghorn at 400 before finally getting an easy shot at 160 and tagging out (73 green, injured one was at least 80). Besides the fact that I lost the better buck, I don't want to just injure an animal that will die in a field later. I would like to get into longer range shooting and be confident out to about 6-700 yds. The optics are easy enough, but my question is whether I should put them on my current .243 770, or if the distance I want to shoot is futile on this rifle and caliber. The other option would be to buy a Remington 700 or Tikka T3 and add the same scope I would buy either way. The cost is $500ish more to get the new rifle, which is a bit of an issue at the moment. If I did it would be chambered in .308 or 300 WM. I do like to plug a coyote now and then which is why I chose the .243 in the first place. True life application would be reaching 600-700 confident range. What are your thoughts? Is it worth it to upgrade or stay with the 770? The 770 does shoot well if the scope didn't come out of zero every time it gets bumped. Thanks in advance!
10-12-2017, 05:12 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
First thing I would do is get it out of my head to be shooting at game 6 and 7 hundred yards to start. I would back down to more resonable ranges like 3 to 4 hundred after I was able to shoot 200 with consistency.
Get a set of good rings and a scope, I'm not a scope snob so I will not tell you what I think is the best brand.
Then find a place where you can practice 3 and 4 hundred yard shooting, even that distance is hard to find in my area to practic distance shooting. We can get 200 fairly easy but any longer is really really hard.
I own beach frontage 6.5 hours from home and can get that range practice there but not often.
Al
Get a set of good rings and a scope, I'm not a scope snob so I will not tell you what I think is the best brand.
Then find a place where you can practice 3 and 4 hundred yard shooting, even that distance is hard to find in my area to practic distance shooting. We can get 200 fairly easy but any longer is really really hard.
I own beach frontage 6.5 hours from home and can get that range practice there but not often.
Al
10-12-2017, 06:13 AM
#3
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
We have a shooting range on our ranch. I can get out to 800 pretty easily to practice (have not done so yet). I guess more accurately I should have said that I want confidence at 500 yds and ability at 7-800. If it was a windless day and I had practiced 7-800 yd shots and felt confident that I could hit the steel at that range I would take the shot. I'm not going to shoot at a deer at 800 yds with a 20mph cross wind.
10-12-2017, 06:57 AM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 64
I don't like hearing of injured animals. In my opinion if you are consistent at 200-300 with a .243, then you should be practicing how to stalk to those distances and call it good enough to keep your shots inside those parameters. It may be such a thing that
"as long as no one touches, bumps, breathes on the scope after I zero!" isn't really the gun or scope. Think about it.
"as long as no one touches, bumps, breathes on the scope after I zero!" isn't really the gun or scope. Think about it.
10-12-2017, 08:03 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Realistically, taking a 600+ yard shot is really hard to do. You need a solid base, bi-pod minimum. Not many places you can use a bi-pod in the field, unless you are lucky.
And even then there are a lot of variables, ambient temperature, uphill or downhill, shooting through air layers, rifle and shooter capabilities, figuring in bullet drop, accurate range calculations. People forget about ambient temperatures, a twenty degree difference in the temperature from your zero temperature can cause 1/2-1 MOA difference.
Most rifles are doing well to get 1 1/2 minute of angle under ideal conditions. That is nine inches +/- at 600 yards. Without any other variable. The chance of throwing one out of the kill zone is pretty darned high.
The only way to know for sure is to practice at your selected ranges, and practice under different weather conditions and keep a book. Pick your ideal range where you can put every round into an eight inch circle, this allows for some of the variables and helps prevent those "Oh chit" moments.
Just a side note. the angle of the butt stock to the barrel often changes from one model of rifle to another. Many of those notes you took and put in your shooting book, you can forget when you change rifles. The reason being the angle of the butt stock often transfers some of the recoil into a vertical motion, which begins before the bullet leaves the barrel. Different bullet weights and powder burn rates change from one ammo manufacturer to another and even different lots of the same ammo from the same manufacturer.
I have no great confidence of making, sure thing, one shot kills at 600 yards.
My kill zone is 8 inches on most game, I'll fudge a little on varmints. My personal limit is around 350 Yards in the field.
I took a shot at a Fox, 25% slope down hill, where I was shooting from it was 75 degrees F where the Fox was there was patches of snow on the ground and it was likely 40 degrees F, air layers. The range was 400 yards. I put it right through the heart. That Fox wasn't luck, but maybe I could repeat that shot and maybe I couldn't? I'd passed on a trophy Buck and hour before, at the same range and on level ground, I wasn't absolutely sure it would be a kill shot.
IMO pushing the envelope isn't something you do with game animals, it's something you save for varmints.
And even then there are a lot of variables, ambient temperature, uphill or downhill, shooting through air layers, rifle and shooter capabilities, figuring in bullet drop, accurate range calculations. People forget about ambient temperatures, a twenty degree difference in the temperature from your zero temperature can cause 1/2-1 MOA difference.
Most rifles are doing well to get 1 1/2 minute of angle under ideal conditions. That is nine inches +/- at 600 yards. Without any other variable. The chance of throwing one out of the kill zone is pretty darned high.
The only way to know for sure is to practice at your selected ranges, and practice under different weather conditions and keep a book. Pick your ideal range where you can put every round into an eight inch circle, this allows for some of the variables and helps prevent those "Oh chit" moments.
Just a side note. the angle of the butt stock to the barrel often changes from one model of rifle to another. Many of those notes you took and put in your shooting book, you can forget when you change rifles. The reason being the angle of the butt stock often transfers some of the recoil into a vertical motion, which begins before the bullet leaves the barrel. Different bullet weights and powder burn rates change from one ammo manufacturer to another and even different lots of the same ammo from the same manufacturer.
I have no great confidence of making, sure thing, one shot kills at 600 yards.
My kill zone is 8 inches on most game, I'll fudge a little on varmints. My personal limit is around 350 Yards in the field.
I took a shot at a Fox, 25% slope down hill, where I was shooting from it was 75 degrees F where the Fox was there was patches of snow on the ground and it was likely 40 degrees F, air layers. The range was 400 yards. I put it right through the heart. That Fox wasn't luck, but maybe I could repeat that shot and maybe I couldn't? I'd passed on a trophy Buck and hour before, at the same range and on level ground, I wasn't absolutely sure it would be a kill shot.
IMO pushing the envelope isn't something you do with game animals, it's something you save for varmints.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 10-12-2017 at 08:07 AM.
10-12-2017, 09:15 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
It would be hard to shoot well with a heavy trigger and poor quality optics. If the budget is presenting a handicap you might be best served by putting better optics on your current rifle and seeing if that helps. If you are going to buy optics anyhow this is a logical place to start. The only parts of the optics system that is probably not transferable to a different rifle are the bases. A 243 will take pronghorns easily at 400 yards if the bullet is well placed.
And now the opinion you will not want to hear:
The 400 yard pronghorn must not have been injured badly if it got away, so the shot must have been well off target. It sounds as though you need to lower your expectations in the distance in which you can make a humane shot. Long range wounding is fairly easily accomplished, and nothing in which anyone should take pride. The ability to "hit the steel" at a shooting range is quite different from taking game cleanly using field positions. A very small number of people are capable of making long shots consistently but only with a great deal of practice, the right equipment, and under perfect conditions.
And now the opinion you will not want to hear:
The 400 yard pronghorn must not have been injured badly if it got away, so the shot must have been well off target. It sounds as though you need to lower your expectations in the distance in which you can make a humane shot. Long range wounding is fairly easily accomplished, and nothing in which anyone should take pride. The ability to "hit the steel" at a shooting range is quite different from taking game cleanly using field positions. A very small number of people are capable of making long shots consistently but only with a great deal of practice, the right equipment, and under perfect conditions.
10-12-2017, 09:42 AM
#8
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
I don't like hearing of injured animals. In my opinion if you are consistent at 200-300 with a .243, then you should be practicing how to stalk to those distances and call it good enough to keep your shots inside those parameters. It may be such a thing that
"as long as no one touches, bumps, breathes on the scope after I zero!" isn't really the gun or scope. Think about it.
"as long as no one touches, bumps, breathes on the scope after I zero!" isn't really the gun or scope. Think about it.
10-12-2017, 03:04 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
It's not the shooter this time. We have a rifle range at the ranch and when I took it back it was off 5 MOA from the zero I put on it 2 days earlier. Had the scope kept its zero it would have hit the antelope right in the kill zone. Have you ever tried to stalk antelope on completely flat terrain wearing blaze orange? 400 was as close as we were going to get to this one. It hit him right in front of the back leg. Looked like he was going to bleed out and then he recovered and ran away with the herd.
Maybe your scope got solidly bumped during transport of the rifle. I'm always pretty careful about that. Scope mount screws come loose? I really like my Kahles scopes, built like a brick. Somebody pushed my car door shut when I had my rifle leaning with the butt on the ground and barrel on the seat back. It put a ding in my scope tube, but luckily enough my zero didn't change any. Like I said, built like a brick.
10-12-2017, 03:38 PM
#10
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
It definitely got bumped. We were riding in a Ranger and it was day 2. Still wouldn't have thought 5 MOA. Obviously the $20 Bushnell scope and rings aren't made to stand up to the abuse. I switched guns and dropped the next one, albeit at 160. Probably still could have made that shot. Thinking about DMZ one piece rings and Vortex 4-16x42 Diamondback HP SPF and then if it's still shooting poorly just getting a new gun, which I like to do anyway! Any thoughts on floating he barrel on the 770?