kansaswiderack

I have gone thru a number of factory loads for my 338 wm. The most accurate on paper is federal premium 225 grain trophy copper. Are there issues with shooting this copper bullet at ranges up to 500 yards on elk? I am comfortable with the shot off of a good solid rest.

Nomercy448

I'm not sure how confident I'd be in a copper expander - even tipped - south of 2000fps. I've never used this particular bullet on elk, but the bullet expansion on the TTSX, E-Tip, and GMX is almost nothing when they drop below 2,000fps. The tip petals back a bit, not even all the way to the bullet shank, and the expansion barely gets larger than the bore diameter. They penetrate well, so the elk will die, but when I shoot something 500yrds away, I want to know it's going to bleed like hell.

Supposedly, the Federal Trophy Copper is a Nosler E-tip bullet, with a different colored tip. If that's the case, then this picture would give me pause:



This is taken from Nosler's page directly. Note, at 500yrds, the specs for the Fed TC 225grn 338win mag show 1927fps, and the bullet at the left above is shown at 1800fps.

The picture above is in line with my experience with all-copper/non-lead/gilding metal bullets at low speeds - they just don't open very far. Googling around will show other expansion tests at 400-500yrds with GMX, E-tip, and TTSX bullets, they all look like the bullet at the left in the E-tip graphic.

I'm bored this morning, so I called Federal, they wouldn't confirm it's the same bullet, but they did say it would reliably expand at 500yrds. Take that for what you will - maybe they call the smushed flower tip pictured above "expanded." I don't.

kansaswiderack

thanks that's the kind of input I was looking for.

younggun308

It's notable that they show a picture of expansion for each 300 fps interval, until they get to 2600---then there's a sudden jump. Makes me wonder if 2300fps isn't that impressive, either.

Nomercy448

I shot a note to Big Uncle. He helped me out a while back getting some mono-metal's to fly right, so I asked if he had experience which could help on this thread too.

I'd really like to think I'm wrong and these relatively high BC mono-metal bullets would be suitable for more than 300-400yrds, but with expansion performance like the picture I linked, it takes a heck of a magnum to kill with these past 500. With the TTSX, I've pulled bullets which look like the 1800fps bullet in the Nosler graphic out of coyotes and whitetails, they obviously died, and penetration was good, but my legs sure got tired finding them.

TN Lone Wolf

That's actually a pretty good question.

kansaswiderack

which factory loads would you recommend to accomplish what I am after. Accuracy and knock down in the 4-500 range out of my 338 wm

CalHunter

I've had good luck with Federal's 250 grain Nosler Partition on elk and moose.

Sheridan

I don't think a thin skinned animal should need a "solid" to put them down, but not my field of expertise ??

super_hunt54

Having gutted, skinned, and cut up a bunch of Elk, I can tell you with absolutely no reservations that Elk are by far NOT "thin skinned" game! Granted they don't have heavy fur and hide like Bear but the skin on an Elk is pretty dang tough. But you are correct that you don't need a mono bullet to effectively put down an Elk. Actually at the ranges he is thinking of, a cup and core bullet would probably be the best option. I personally don't go past 400 yards no matter what I am carrying and I haven't bought factory ammo in many moons since I roll my own. But if you are wanting a high BC bullet with good down range terminal performance, anything loaded with the Nosler Partition or a Hornady SST would be good. Now, the SST, from my experiences with it anyway, is a fair to poor performer at up close and personal ranges from any rifle with some speed on it. They blow up. BUT at around 100 yards and out, they perform flawlessly. They open easily and effectively. The Noslers have performed well at most all ranges for me on the couple rifles that I use them in. 1 .300wm and 1 .30-06 that absolutely WILL NOT group any other bullet!