Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

What do you guys is more accurate (in general) a shotgun with rifled barrel shooting slugs or a scoped, in-line muzzle loader. I always figured the in-line. The action is tight and there are less moving parts. Plus - the bullet is seated tighter from the start. There are some accurate slug guns out there, though. What do you think?

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

It is my experience that my T/C Encore with the .50 cal ML or the 20ga. slug barrel is an accurate and lethal proposition.

Out to 100-125 yds either would work great. I might pick the slug barrel just for reasons like faster 2nd shots.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

It is a general question, but for consistency, the shotgun will win every time. Smokeless powder burns much more consistently than BP. My slug guns shoot better than my muzzleloaders, but not by much. They are just more consistent from year to year. Some lots of powder I get shoots well, some don' t.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

How about when you use pyrodex or smokeless powder in that Savage ML?

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Pyrodex is in the same boat as Goex, or Elephant. But that Savage might be a different story. All my buddies with them can really outshoot even my Browning Gold Slug gun which is a tack driver of a slug gun and shoots out to 150yards too.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

My experience has been a bit different, though you are no doubt a better and more practiced shooter than most hunters. I' ve worked rilfe sight in clinics for several years and have seen litterally thousands of shotguns sighted in. I have seen a few really accurate shotguns, but at best it would be about 1 out of every 20 I see. The few Ithacas and Brownings I see typically shoot really well, and the mossberg bolt action slug guns seem to shoot pretty well also. The few muzzleloaders I see tend to shoot much beter than the shotguns, my own smokepole shooting roundballs will outclass just about every shotgun I' ve seen.
I often wonder if its the shotgun or the shooter behind the inaccuracy, I' m leaning toward the shooter. 12 guage slugs kick hard, and for a person who dusts off the shotgun and sights it in once per year may waste his best few shots, trying to get the holes adjusted into the bullseye. What usually follows is shots start creeping all over the paper- maybe because the thin barrel of the shotgun is starting to warp from the heat or the shoters shoulder is screaming for mercy after 3 or 4 shots- maybe a bit of both. I' ve also seen a guy bring out a TC encore type muzzleloader and put 10 shots in an area that would easily be covered with the palm of my hand at 100 yards- probably as accurate if not more accurate than alot of hunting rifles out there. Less recoil, thicker barrel less prone to warping, and a more experienced shooter probably make the difference there.

Now, I have to put in a disclaimer- I don' t shoot shotgun slugs and have no interest in them, but have observed many others shoting them, with me occasionally finishing a sightin if the shooter' s shoulder gets to sore.;)

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

For pure raw accuracy the ML wins in my experience. Some slug guns are truly fine, but the well handled ML is still supreme.....but it does give license to the term single shot!!

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

i think id have to give the nod to the ML but my experience is limited in this departement

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

I was thinking the ML for the pure reason that it has less moving parts. Just like a bolt action or single shot rifle is generally more accurate than a pump or lever rifle, the ML has no moving parts. I didn' t think about the thin barrels on the shotguns. That would have an effect, too. The most accurate target rifles have thick, bull barrels. I also think the bullet fits tighter in the ML barrel. It' s already engaged in the rifling when the gun is fired. It doesn' t have to leave a plastic shotgun shell hull, exit the chamber and find the barrel. Plus, the sabot is not necessary in the ML. It just seems that the ML would have the advantage. I have the choice to use a shotgun or in-line this buck season and I was leaning towards the in-line.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Deer hunting in NY with a shotgun for the last 25 years, I can tell you that an In-line BP gun can shoot " rings" around a slug gun anyday of the week!!
Talk about consistancy!! Sure you can pick up one of those Tar-Hunt bolt action slug guns for $1,200.00, which are more accurate than the regular off the shelf pump guns, but then you still have that wind to deal with!!! A In-line BP gun has it all over a slug gun accuracy wise and at a much cheaper price tag than a Tar-Hunt to boot!!;)

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Oh, that sounds like a challenge :D. And a fun one at that. I have bunches of experience with both. Bottom line is really they both are a 130 yard max weapon.

Now you are going to think this is funny, but last year, my Knight really outshot my gold or my 870 sluggun with 2" groups all day. But this year it does not. Maybe with a new lot of pryodex, maybe the weather, my muzzleloader shoots different this year, and seems to need tweaking to get 4 groups out of 5 with 2" groups at 100 yards.

But my slugguns, always, I mean always shoots 2.5" groups or better. Every year, same story, no tweaking, no muss, no fuss. I still like my ML' s better.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

In my opinion the muzzleloader wins the accuracy contest. I' d love to pickup one of the newer inline muzzleloaders. I just can' t seem to justify it though.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

I got a CVA bolt action ML at Dick' s Sporting Goods for about $100.

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RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

I' d like to hear what slugs everyone is shooting to get these groups.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Well, I have noticed all my slugguns are different. In my 870, it only likes those older Federal hydroshocks, that are shaped like an hour glass, but won' t shoot Remingtons worth a darn. In my Browning gold, it loves the remington copper solids. It is a tack driver with these slugs. But it hates the older Federals. (I bought up a whole bunch a few years ago, and don' t think they make them anymore).

But all likes the lightfields.

My 870 is open sighted and gets 2" groups at 50 yards very consistently. My Gold has a 2x7 scope and gets 2" groups at 100 yards pretty consistently. This year I plan on trying those long range remingtons.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Bigcountry-

Did you mean a muzzleloader is only a 130yd max weapon? If so, I really should quit shooting it @ 200. Sunday' s group @ 200 yards with a Savage 10ml 2 measured .785" . Drop was 5.5" . Have quit testing for the year as mz season is almost here, but plan to see what it will do @ 300 after season.

Good luck.

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RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Do the math. With a .18BC and 2200fps launch with a 240gr bullet zeroed at 100 yards, you have a drop of 10" at 200 yards and 1000ft/lbs of energy at 200 yards with a velocity of 1100fps.

Yea, thats definatly lack of experience or you might be very lucky. Be a hunter. Wait for that animal. Draw him close to you with skills that were used for centuries.

So ewc, are you trying to say that the average muzzleloader hunter can get .5" groups at 200 yards? Or are is this just tall TN talk. I don' t think all ML will get that sort of performance. So suggesting that all ML are 200yard weapons is not a great idea.

I will tell you what. I will make a challenge with you. I bet you that Savage ML against my 500 dollars that you can' t get less than 1" groups at 200 yards 3 times out 5 with three shot groups.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

My math stinks. You do the math. B.C.=.240; MV=2,330; +2.5@100 = -5.5@200 yards. Did not mean to upset or embarass you. For the record, I said nothing about my skills as a hunter. But since you brought that up, I' ve killed 40-some odd whitetails with my mz in the last 17 years. Only killed one of those past 75 yards and it was @ 130. However, I routinely shoot at 200 and can kill at that range if I was ever tempted to do so.

I never suggested all muzzleloaders were 200 yard weapons. A lot of that depends on the shooter. I do know my muzzleloader will definately kill at that range. With some practice, maybe you could do it too.

Since I' m from Tennessee, everything I say is Tennessee talk. I don' t make silly bets, every time I do, I lose. However, since your jealous of the gun, you can come borrow it anytime you want.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

I would say on average the Ml will outperform most slug rifles in accuracy. I don' t own both but have seen how mine does against a few who do own slug guns. I don' t believe that MLs are 200 yards killers for all, while I can group very nicely at 200 yards, I still won' t take that shot. My bullet drops 10-12" from 100-200(depending on the conditions and powder burn) and that is to much where to hold for my likes. Even though i own a range finder and could determine distance with then where to hold, I prefer to hunt higher % odds and spots that keeps my shots to 100 or so.

I personally shoot 240 gr 50 cal bullets with 100 gr of 777(209 primers) and group in around 1" at 100 yards. At 150 my groups double easily, so as such that is where I hang my max range. In all but one case my ml shots have come between 30-100 yards, so i really see no need to try the 200 low % shot. Everybody has their limit, experience and own choice to make on what they can REALISTICALLY shoot till. I try and set up within 200 yards for my 7 rem mag, even though I can shoot much further...boils down to when that chance is presented I want as much of the odds in my favor...becasue even good shooters do make small mistakes.;)

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Oh come on ewc. I am a Kentucky man really, owning a house there and here in MD. Grew up in Ky and TN. Not far from knoxville. So I do understand the temptations of big talk from TN/KY/VA. Its kinda born into us. I fortunately have gotten away from it over the years. Its kinda like when my cousin from Pikeville, KY calls and said he got a 200lb 10 pointer with 24" spread, I reduce that down to 140lbs dressed out and more like a 8pt with a 20" inside spead.

Come on ewc, put that weapon up on a bet. I can take the wager up a step. You name the amount. I will be down at my ole ky home for a week during Thanksgiving. And that gun would worth it for me to drive 2 and half hours. It makes it interesting. And an expert hunter like yourself, it would be like taking candy from a baby. Actally I do like the savage and do want one. And will if I continue to ML hunt this much. MD has a real long ML season and an early one.

This morning about 3 hours ago I dropped a whitetail for the table at 90 yards with an older knight inline. This is the typical ML' s out there, even though the " magnums" are definately getting up there in numbers. I shot it in the shoulder angling to the heart. It barely penetrated the shoulder and finally got the heart. But thats as far as it went. He dropped in his tracks. Thats as far as I would have taken that shot. With a " typical" , ML, I needed more energy to do the job right. I have not killed half the deer you have with a ML, as I usually take the majority of deer with a bow.

No matter what the practice, I do with either my knight or my TC sidelock, I don' t think I will ever be able to take deer at 200 yards.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

ewc, what is your load your using to get 2330fps? Is that chrono' d? thats the highest velocity I have ever seen for the savage and still have great accuracy.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

It seems that ewc is being picked on for some reason or other.

All I can say is, I' ve got a truely accurate pump slug gun, I" ve shot some truely accurate muzzleloaders, and I have no reason to doubt what ewc has said.

Out of all the muzzleloading rifles out there, and all of the great hunters that pull the triggers, there' s bound to be at least one guy/rifle that can shoot that well.

Keep up the good shooting, ewc!

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

mainehunt. Just some good fun. I am sure he is telling the truth, which is why he should take my money with the bet.

you got to understand the area. Money talks, and BS walks is what I say now.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

Like I said, I don' t make silly bets. Do I think I could do it 3 out of 5? I honestly don' t know. I' d like to try, but not at the risk of that gun.

This load is for the Savage 10 ml II only:
43 gr SR-4759, W209 primer, 28ga Claybuster base wad, and Hornady 250 gr SST.
I did not chronograph this load, but Toby Bridges has a number of times for the 2,330 figure I gave you.

I have shot much hotter loads through my Savage with Lil' Gun. However, I shoot SR-4759 for the accuracy, not speed. Some others shooting Lil' Gun and 180 gr Knight Red Hots have gotten 2,900 fps. I believe that Toby has gotten over 3,000 fps with the 175 gr Devel.

Visit the sites that One-Shot recommends in the Muzzleloading Forum; Savage Thread. Those guys are good.

By the way, I used to run walleye creel surveys on the upper Clinch River. Creeled several Pikeville boys that were among the best walleye fisherman I would come across.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

ok, your not going to bite. :D

After this morning, I think I will pick up one of the savages maybe next year. I agree you can get much better range than either of my ML. And there was a few times this morning I could have used a longer range gun.

RE: Accuracy - Slug Gun vs. In-line?
 

I shoot both an in-line and a shot gun. The shot gun was my first rifle and it is a lot of fun and the only problem is the kick. The shot gun is an all around rifle and can be used for many different things, from skeet shooting to deer hunting. If you are strickly going deer, bear, or elk hunting I would choose the in-line or flint lock rifle. Here in PA, you can only use the shot gun 2 weeks for deer, or extra time for turkey. If you had a flint lock rifle, you could use it about 4 or more weeks of deer hunting. The in-line with a scope I would find more accurate.

Good luck....

Tomster