7mm vs 300 win vs 28 nosler
02-26-2016, 10:08 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Better ballistics? Care to explain how the same bullet put in a shortened case can attain higher ballistic profiles? While I do agree that a short action rifle can be easier to carry and have a bit stiffer frame due to that short action, the better "ballistics" statement is about as false as you can get. And as StalkingBear said, with the 300WM you can go to the longer profile higher BC bullets that aren't an option for the short action WSM. So your "better ballistics" is shot down in that form as well.
02-27-2016, 04:57 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
Better ballistics? Care to explain how the same bullet put in a shortened case can attain higher ballistic profiles? While I do agree that a short action rifle can be easier to carry and have a bit stiffer frame due to that short action, the better "ballistics" statement is about as false as you can get. And as StalkingBear said, with the 300WM you can go to the longer profile higher BC bullets that aren't an option for the short action WSM. So your "better ballistics" is shot down in that form as well.
02-27-2016, 06:00 AM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ****ifornia
Posts: 5,052
02-27-2016, 07:16 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
To be brutally honest, not what yall want to hear, just about any critter likely to be hunted/shot by any of those cartridges wouldn't be able to tell ANY difference which they was shot with! Also if the shooter is enough of a marksman & has trajectory either memorized or a cheat sheet taped to the stock will be able to shoot/hit with any of them anyway. So it's kind of a moot point. Gunwriters don't like to hear this because they make their living splitting hairs & writing about it. The whole 300 WM vs 300 WSM war is kind of silly as there's not enough difference ballistically to matter when handloaded. The longer 300 WM does have an advantage with very long bullets. It's a simple matter of physics and cannot be changed that when you take a smaller case (capacity) and reduce it's volume even more by seating an extremely long high BC bullet into what was powder space, there's no way it can have higher velocity with the same bullet & loading pressure. Having said that, it don't matter which you choose as long as you invest the time/cost of getting to intimately know your rifle/bullet/cartridge/scope combo. The 1,000 yard matches have very little to do with this discussion involving & OP asking about a hunting rifle/cartridge. It's like comparing a tennis racket roa golf club and saying 1 is better than the other/s!
02-27-2016, 07:25 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
To be brutally honest, not what yall want to hear, just about any critter likely to be hunted/shot by any of those cartridges wouldn't be able to tell ANY difference which they was shot with! Also if the shooter is enough of a marksman & has trajectory either memorized or a cheat sheet taped to the stock will be able to shoot/hit with any of them anyway. So it's kind of a moot point. Gunwriters don't like to hear this because they make their living splitting hairs & writing about it. The whole 300 WM vs 300 WSM war is kind of silly as there's not enough difference ballistically to matter when handloaded. The longer 300 WM does have an advantage with very long bullets. It's a simple matter of physics and cannot be changed that when you take a smaller case (capacity) and reduce it's volume even more by seating an extremely long high BC bullet into what was powder space, there's no way it can have higher velocity with the same bullet & loading pressure. Having said that, it don't matter which you choose as long as you invest the time/cost of getting to intimately know your rifle/bullet/cartridge/scope combo. The 1,000 yard matches have very little to do with this discussion involving & OP asking about a hunting rifle/cartridge. It's like comparing a tennis racket roa golf club and saying 1 is better than the other/s!
02-27-2016, 08:58 AM
#36
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
Most people never cross the 400 yard mark on animals. For those that hand out in these forums might be a tad bit different on shooting longer ranges. For the average Joe there's not a tinkers darn bit a noticeable difference other than the price of ammunition.
02-27-2016, 02:21 PM
#38
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
I've been a 7mm Mag shooter since I've been 14. I'm 52 now. I have no idea how many heads of game have fallen to my rifle but I have taken 68 species total and at least 60 of those species fell to the 7mm. I've also used a 300 Win Mag a little, have shot some game with a 300 WSM, a 7x57 Mauser and a 270 Win. I have no experience with the .28 Nosler. I'm pretty confident there isn't enough difference in the 3 calibers the OP listed to make any arguments worthwhile. A bullet from any of the 3, placed properly will kill any deer or elk out to the stated range.
02-27-2016, 03:42 PM
#39
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 240
So why don’t we all just buy a 30/06 and be done with it?
RR, I’m not sure what I’ve done that causes you to discredit everything I mention, not once have I done anything to create doubt on any of your post, a few years ago you did the same thing you are doing now. Then I was quite and didn’t lower my standard to respond, that’s not the case today. You have no idea of my abilities, equipment or knowledge, maybe listen, maybe learn, maybe not, it seems you know it all already. I misread your post and thought you said.4MOA, not .04MOA, that’s quite a feat for sure. How many times have you posted a group size like that at that distance? I’m betting once! I’ve been fortunate enough to print a group like that once or twice too, sorry no pics, although mine were 5 shot groups not 3. Since I did misread your.04MOA as .4 I have to back out of my earlier statement, I have not shot several groups under that landmark, I have however shot several under .4 under match conditions, not nice calm mornings, that’s under all conditions and yes it was with a 300WSM, I can post plenty of target pics of those groups. That same WSM will agg a 1.75” group at 500, good days it prints 1” bad days 2.5” all 5 shot groups, what does your rifle agg? I’ve shot high score of the year at one of our local matches 4 consecutive years, 3 of them were with the WSM, it won the Worlds Championship 2 day ground hog match with the highest score ever until last year when it was beat by 1 point. That “Inherently” accurate 300 has shot extremely well over the years and that’s why I promote it the way I do, it flat out works as do most guys I know that use a WSM. I haven’t been able to find where Matt Kline’s Heavy Gun 10 shot world record was beat by a Dasher, you may need to post a link, he set it in 2010, I think you might be a little confused, Paul Martinez held light gun record with a WSM, that one in fact was beat by a Dasher in 2014. Both Matt’s and Paul’s records were shot at the 1000 Yard club in Williamsport.
To answer the question about powder in a WSM and WM, no they are not the same, I use H4350 in a WSM and RE22 in the WM. The load in the WSM is 61.xx grains shooting a 210 VLD bullet at 2860fps, the WM is 70.xx grains of RE22 pushing a 190 SMK just under 2900fps. These aren’t numbers read from a magazine these are factual numbers shot over a crony, the WSM is a 29” custom and the WM is a 24” factory gun that’s been worked over. The short fat case and shoulder angle produces an efficient burn rate hence added velocity with less powder, the large case of the Win Mag likes large doses of slower burning powder, it is also an awesome cartridge but when your able to seat the bullets out far enough in the WSM it’s a clear winner.
If you all want to say there isn’t a dimes worth of difference between them your probably right under hunting conditions, but I like accuracy and if you want to be as accurate as possible and shoot the case that’s going to provide you with the best results it’s hard to ignore what’s been proven by match shooters, there is just so much data and information available from guys that shoot a lot and are always striving to get the best results all the time.
Back to the OP, stick with the 300 period no matter if it’s a WM or WSM for the simple reason I mentioned before, Bullet selection, the variety in .308 is equaled by no other caliber, from 125grain to the big heavy 240’s
RR, I’m not sure what I’ve done that causes you to discredit everything I mention, not once have I done anything to create doubt on any of your post, a few years ago you did the same thing you are doing now. Then I was quite and didn’t lower my standard to respond, that’s not the case today. You have no idea of my abilities, equipment or knowledge, maybe listen, maybe learn, maybe not, it seems you know it all already. I misread your post and thought you said.4MOA, not .04MOA, that’s quite a feat for sure. How many times have you posted a group size like that at that distance? I’m betting once! I’ve been fortunate enough to print a group like that once or twice too, sorry no pics, although mine were 5 shot groups not 3. Since I did misread your.04MOA as .4 I have to back out of my earlier statement, I have not shot several groups under that landmark, I have however shot several under .4 under match conditions, not nice calm mornings, that’s under all conditions and yes it was with a 300WSM, I can post plenty of target pics of those groups. That same WSM will agg a 1.75” group at 500, good days it prints 1” bad days 2.5” all 5 shot groups, what does your rifle agg? I’ve shot high score of the year at one of our local matches 4 consecutive years, 3 of them were with the WSM, it won the Worlds Championship 2 day ground hog match with the highest score ever until last year when it was beat by 1 point. That “Inherently” accurate 300 has shot extremely well over the years and that’s why I promote it the way I do, it flat out works as do most guys I know that use a WSM. I haven’t been able to find where Matt Kline’s Heavy Gun 10 shot world record was beat by a Dasher, you may need to post a link, he set it in 2010, I think you might be a little confused, Paul Martinez held light gun record with a WSM, that one in fact was beat by a Dasher in 2014. Both Matt’s and Paul’s records were shot at the 1000 Yard club in Williamsport.
To answer the question about powder in a WSM and WM, no they are not the same, I use H4350 in a WSM and RE22 in the WM. The load in the WSM is 61.xx grains shooting a 210 VLD bullet at 2860fps, the WM is 70.xx grains of RE22 pushing a 190 SMK just under 2900fps. These aren’t numbers read from a magazine these are factual numbers shot over a crony, the WSM is a 29” custom and the WM is a 24” factory gun that’s been worked over. The short fat case and shoulder angle produces an efficient burn rate hence added velocity with less powder, the large case of the Win Mag likes large doses of slower burning powder, it is also an awesome cartridge but when your able to seat the bullets out far enough in the WSM it’s a clear winner.
If you all want to say there isn’t a dimes worth of difference between them your probably right under hunting conditions, but I like accuracy and if you want to be as accurate as possible and shoot the case that’s going to provide you with the best results it’s hard to ignore what’s been proven by match shooters, there is just so much data and information available from guys that shoot a lot and are always striving to get the best results all the time.
Back to the OP, stick with the 300 period no matter if it’s a WM or WSM for the simple reason I mentioned before, Bullet selection, the variety in .308 is equaled by no other caliber, from 125grain to the big heavy 240’s