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Red dot on AR15, is this normal?

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Red dot on AR15, is this normal?

Old 02-06-2016, 11:53 AM
  #1  
Typical Buck
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Default Red dot on AR15, is this normal?

I purchased a SW sport ar15 and put a bushnell tr25 red dot scope on it. I was expecting the red dot to allow for faster target acquisition but what I've learned is, in order to be accurate, I need to push the red dot to the bottom zone of the sight plane. In fact, the best accuracy comes when I have the red dot aligned w the front sight while looking thru the rear sight which is a peep hole. While this works fine, forcing this alignment takes more time vs throwing it up and putting the dot on the target.

Am I doing something wrong or can this be fixed?
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Old 02-06-2016, 05:42 PM
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I'm not reallly sure what you're talking about. I've used red dot sights before and I even have the TR25. That's a nice little compact setup. In fact I also have the S&W15 .22LR and I removed the sights and have a Buckmark red dot on it.
Once you have the dot sighted in you shoot with both eyes open. As long as the dot is on the target when the round goes off you will hit it. Your eye does not have to be in perfect alignment with the scope as it would with the open sights or a tubular rifle scope.
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:10 AM
  #3  
Typical Buck
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I guess it is hard to describe my problem but the bottom line is, when I throw the AR up, the red dot is in appx the middle of the glass but it is not on target in that location. I need to press my face and manipulate the gun until the dot drops down to the bottom of the glass, sight plane...which happens to then place the dot in line w the front and rear factory sights. At this point, the shot is dead on but it is less natural than just throwing the gun up and putting the dot anywhere on the target and shooting.

I wonder if this has anything to do w the red dot sight having come w a high mount as part of the kit vs medium. Or is there something else up?
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:46 AM
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I'm not getting what you are asking either? My hunch is you need to sight in the Red Dot. And/or back your eye away from the scope a bit. And/or your expectations of accuracy are unlikely to be fulfilled anyway. Red Dot isn't for accuracy.

You shouldn't have much parallax, the exception being if you are way to close to the sight. Red Dots are designed to have very little parallax.

Accuracy and a 3 Mil Red Dot is kind of an oxymoron. 1 Mil is like three inches/ 3 MOA (I think it's 3.3 inches ?) at a hundred yards. A 3 Mil red dot and the dot covers almost ten inches at a hundred yards.

You throw the rifle up there, put the Red Dot on center of mass and pull the trigger. The bullet should hit some place in that ten inch circle at a hundred yards.

My Red Dot is like twenty years old ( on a Mini 14), the way I sighted mine in was on an old style 10 ring target (500 meter rifle target) at a hundred yards. I'd center the Red Dot inside an outer ring and see where my bullet struck the target. Adjust the sight until the bullet is near center or actually 2 inches high at a hundred yards, which is just my preference. My Mini shoots 3 MOA anyway on a good day.

You can do just about the same if you have a rifle vise, center the iron sights on a 10 ring target then move the Red Dot as close to center as you can guesstimate.

Found this. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...-trs-25-a.html

Last edited by MudderChuck; 02-08-2016 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:01 AM
  #5  
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The line of sight between the scope and the barrel is going to have a bearing on where the bullet strikes. The closer or farther you shoot from your zero range the bigger the difference.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 02-08-2016 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:47 AM
  #6  
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So... You're seeing a difference in accuracy dependent upon where the dot is positioned within the reflector pane (sight window)?

Is it a difference in precision - group size, or difference in accuracy - POI? If you're shooting on target with the dot near the bottom and not when centered, then you simply need to re-zero. If it's a difference in precision, meaning it shoots 2" groups near the bottom, and 4" groups near the center, then you have something very funky going on.
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Old 02-08-2016, 03:19 PM
  #7  
Typical Buck
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Well, I'm not sure what's going on but I think part of the problem is, I sighted the gun and scope in at 100 yards. I shot two bullets Saturday in the rest at 100 yards and the first hit the bullseye and the second was within 2 inches. I decided not to chance it with a third shot but generally, I can shoot appx 4" groups at 100. I think this is the issue I'm facing, I intend to shoot hogs at 60 yards or less but the gun is zeroed at 100. I read somewhere that I should zero at 100 so that's what I did but if my plan is to be at 30-60 yrds, I need to re zero...I think.
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Old 02-08-2016, 03:30 PM
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You decided not to chance a third shot? What does that mean. If your gun is sighted in and you know how to shoot a third shot would not be taking a chance. Would you rather take a chance on a live animal that you could wound and cause to suffer because you did not want to take a chance at a target? If the first shot was on and the second out you need to find out if the shot that was out is you or the gun.
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:43 PM
  #9  
Typical Buck
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr View Post
You decided not to chance a third shot? What does that mean. If your gun is sighted in and you know how to shoot a third shot would not be taking a chance. Would you rather take a chance on a live animal that you could wound and cause to suffer because you did not want to take a chance at a target? If the first shot was on and the second out you need to find out if the shot that was out is you or the gun.
Gimme a break, it was a joke. The damn thing shoots lights out at 100 yards. I've shot a box at 100 yards w the same results, the accuracy has amazed me given what I've read about red dots. I'm trying to figure out why the sight plane is at the bottom of the sight and needs to be lined up with the factory fixed sights. Maybe the answer is, it doesn't matter
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:47 PM
  #10  
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Just an opinion but four inch groups at a hundred yards is just about what I expect with my Mini and a Red Dot sight. If I have to shot farther I use my iron sights (I have a see through mount).

Measure the distance from the center of your sight to the center of the barrel. This is about what your bullet strike is going to drop from your point of aim, as you move the range in from a hundred yards to zero yards.

A Red Dot is for snap shots at less than a hundred yards IMO. Especially if your Red Dot has a big dot ( 3 Mil ?).

IMO if you can shoot 2 inch groups at a hundred yards ( IMO four inches would be more realistic) you are good to go. Now practice how much you are going to lead a running Hog. And practice follow through, with both eyes open, and practice not ambushing a moving target until it gets to be second nature (instinct shooting). Much like bird hunting with a shotgun. Jack Rabbits can be good practice and loads of fun.

Aligning the rear iron sight, the Red Dot and the front iron sight to shoot is a head scratcher and not something that has ever crossed my mind.
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