Guns Like firearms themselves, there's a wide variety of opinions on what's the best gun.

Guns and self defense

Old 06-15-2015, 07:27 PM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
super_hunt54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Default

Oldtimr, I did that little research for here in Illinois. They have 3 defense clauses that strictly prohibit any liable claim to be brought against anyone that has PROVEN self defense. Here they are.

Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:

(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent, riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or

(2) He reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

State: Illinois



Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

I knew the one about the dwelling but I am happily surprised at the other 2 statutes. Again, for this state being so ANTI it's actually a shock to see the protections afforded to honest people defending themselves against criminals. I'm sure the statute for "property" protection was brought about for the Armed security guards in case they had to discharge their weapons.
super_hunt54 is offline  
Old 06-15-2015, 07:53 PM
  #12  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Freightliner357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 34
Default

Originally Posted by super_hunt54
Oldtimr, I did that little research for here in Illinois. They have 3 defense clauses that strictly prohibit any liable claim to be brought against anyone that has PROVEN self defense. Here they are.

Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:

(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent, riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or

(2) He reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

State: Illinois



Illinois Consolidated Statutes (I.L.C.S.)

Chapter 720. Criminal Offenses

5. Criminal Code

Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of “aggressor” set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

I knew the one about the dwelling but I am happily surprised at the other 2 statutes. Again, for this state being so ANTI it's actually a shock to see the protections afforded to honest people defending themselves against criminals. I'm sure the statute for "property" protection was brought about for the Armed security guards in case they had to discharge their weapons.
So you can use deadly force if someone is going to commit a violent felony against you besides murder ?
Freightliner357 is offline  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:31 PM
  #13  
Nontypical Buck
 
super_hunt54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Default

Originally Posted by Freightliner357
So you can use deadly force if someone is going to commit a violent felony against you besides murder ?
Outside of the dwelling and personal property statutes then the bodily harm statute kicks in, such as rape or any physically violent felonious act. In the dwelling statute, to give you a simple scenario, man kicks in your door (violent entry), shoot man multiple times, end violent entry, your in no trouble more or less. He kicked in your door which constitutes "violent" entry. Now, If you were stupid enough (if you live in Chicago) to be in your house with the door unlocked (non violent entry), you will have to prove a violent FELONIOUS act against yourself or family. The waters can get a little muddy there but an honest person who's had no previous record of violence or anything "seedy" would probably be just dandy.

A simple rule to follow Freightliner is this, Outside of your home, no matter what state you are in, DON'T PULL YOUR WEAPON UNLESS YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE IS IN IMMINENT DANGER PERIOD!!!! But if you DO have to pull it, make sure it's the last thing they will ever see. Anyone that says "never shoot to kill, shoot to wound" is an idiot. Center mass and UNLOAD! That's not being a bloodthirsty butthead, it's being factual and straightforward. One of the first things my old man taught me about firearms is these 2 facts, A firearm is made for 2 things, killing and practicing killing. Yes I know, what about competition shooting and such, same thing, it is a TOOL made for the ending of life. Whether it be for hunting, self defense, or war it all boils down to a tool for killing. Man pulls a weapon on me, he better make sure I'm dead because I would most certainly keep trying to do the same!
super_hunt54 is offline  
Old 06-16-2015, 03:58 AM
  #14  
Boone & Crockett
 
Oldtimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,640
Default

Super, it is amazing that any state that has the anti gun politicians that Illinois does has such good protection against civil action against anyone who legally uses force to protect themselves or others. Keep hoping that info stays under the radar. Of course it doesn't help the people of Chicago if they can't buy a gun.
Oldtimr is online now  
Old 06-16-2015, 06:05 AM
  #15  
Nontypical Buck
 
super_hunt54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Default

Originally Posted by Oldtimr
Super, it is amazing that any state that has the anti gun politicians that Illinois does has such good protection against civil action against anyone who legally uses force to protect themselves or others. Keep hoping that info stays under the radar. Of course it doesn't help the people of Chicago if they can't buy a gun.
All that stuff has been turned over here in Illinois Oldtimr. Several years back the Mayor TRIED to enact what was basically a gun ban but it got overturned pretty quickly. Getting a gun here , and in Chicago, is pretty much the same as everywhere else except for the FOID card BS and I believe there are those that are FINALLY getting the stupid gene taken out and going after THAT unconstitutional crap as well. With shootings on the rise in Chicago the ANTI's are having a field day and doing their usual "snake charming" trying to blame the gun as well as the new concealed carry laws even though not 1 single shooting death has been from a LEGALLY owned firearm or from a person with a CC permit. Except from the Police which about half of them I wouldn't let fire a weapon on the firing range let alone carry one on the job! I find it hilarious that about the stupidest police officer in Chicago is the CHIEF. That man makes a box of rocks look like Einstein!
super_hunt54 is offline  
Old 06-16-2015, 06:11 AM
  #16  
Boone & Crockett
 
Oldtimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,640
Default

That is good. The antis will always be scheming, the rest of us have to be vigilent 24/7 and we have to know our rights, something that too few know.
Oldtimr is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 04:42 AM
  #17  
Nontypical Buck
 
stalkingbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
Default

If there's ANY question in your mind if you should shoot in self defense, it's not time to respond with deadly force yet! 1st thing to do is avoid getting in the situation in the 1st place, using common sense & situational awareness to get out before it escalates to that point. If you're forced to defend yourself, you'll know it and won't have ANY other options or time to do anything else. Only if there's NO other options should you draw and use the deadly force, whatever form it may be in, then it's justified.
stalkingbear is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 06:05 AM
  #18  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

Originally Posted by stalkingbear
If there's ANY question in your mind if you should shoot in self defense, it's not time to respond with deadly force yet! 1st thing to do is avoid getting in the situation in the 1st place, using common sense & situational awareness to get out before it escalates to that point. If you're forced to defend yourself, you'll know it and won't have ANY other options or time to do anything else. Only if there's NO other options should you draw and use the deadly force, whatever form it may be in, then it's justified.
The best advice I can give, in a general sort of way, is to have multiple options. Which is basic survival training from the guys at the pointy end of the spear. The stuff I learned in the military works well. If you run out of options, you are likely to die.

We had just moved into a new to us house, we had many strangers popping in to do repairs, estimates and such. Door bell rings and I open the door to two XXL guys in suits. Can we come in? "No, call to make an appointment, now isn't a good time". They hit the door in a rush, I go flaying backwards onto a set of marble steps, they do a dance on my body on there way by. I've been hit before and am hard to keep down. The wife calls from upstairs and asks what is happening, they run up the stairs, I go for my pistol. She sees them and screams, I have no idea exactly what is happening. They come back down the stairs and find themselves on the last couple of steps looking down the barrel of my pistol. The one says to the other, "don't worry he won't shoot". I put one into the wall right between their heads. They were close enough, both had powder burns on the sides of there faces. I said get out, the next time I see you it is shoot on sight. I didn't call the Cops, the Police aren't your friends. These guys are practiced criminals and are likely better liars than I am. In fact most Police and criminals are practiced liars and by the time the situation is documented it is unlikely to remotely resemble the truth. And then the lawyers get involved and the truth morphs yet again.

I put up motion sensors, put up an additional gate/fence between the house and the street and got a man eating dog. If you weren't a kid or female, he was going to eat you. He was heavily insured. He was a good Dog in a detached sort of way, he wasn't real friendly. He flunked out of Dope Dog school for over aggressiveness and had days before he was due to be put down when I gave him second lease on life. Once he caught on that kids and women were not to be bitten and everybody else was fair game, he lived a long and productive life. And chewed the excrement out of more than a few people stupid enough to ignore the signage. Me and that Dog had a lot in common.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 07-02-2015 at 06:08 AM.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 07:16 AM
  #19  
Nontypical Buck
 
super_hunt54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Default

Sorry Chuck, had that been me, there would have been a call to the police to report a break in and 2 dead intruders. I live by the adage, if you see my weapon, it's the last thing you will ever see. No warning shots, no "halt or I'll shoot", nothing like that. If I have pulled my weapon it's because I have already done any and all I could do otherwise. The second I saw them heading for my wife they would have each received a bullet to the base of the scull.
super_hunt54 is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:27 AM
  #20  
Nontypical Buck
 
stalkingbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
Default

Just remember, you NEVER say you're going to shoot to kill!!!! You say you shot to stop the threat! "They said they were going to kill you, and you believed them, and shot to stop the threat, now I'm tired officer and need to rest & calm down." That's ALL you say without an attorney present. Unfortunately, the best way to stop them from being able to perform further acts of aggression quickly usually results in their death.
stalkingbear is offline  

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.