new to hunting need a rifle suggestion.
 

Ok so I'm new to hunting, never done it before in my life. But I want to start. So to start I'm going to need a new rifle. Right now I'm leaning towards a Remington 700 .308 for its familiarity. In the marine corps we use a variation in that cap. But I'm open to suggestions, like I said I'm completely new to this. Now my big question thus far in my research of the 700. Is how much difference is there between 16.5" 20" and 26". And what is suggested. I can't imagine taking any shots beyond 500 yards. The barrels on our m16s are 16inch and I've never had trouble shooting at the 500yd line hence my question.
Any other advice you could provide would be immensely helpful for this new hunter. Thanks everyone.

The longer the barrel, the greater your velocity will be. 308 is a great caliber that is easy to load for. I don't like Remington at all, but if it floats your boat, go for it.

Yep to both comments made by Redgreen!

I'm also open to any suggestions. I choose the R700 based off my time using it in the military

The Remington Model 700 is a fine rifle.

Every site has a few folks that do not like them, mostly the Ford vs. Chevy stuff. Typical internet chatter.

In a .308 Win chambering a barrel of 20" - 22" probably is the optimum length for general hunting. Barrels much longer than that do not do a lot for a .308 Win and the shorter barrels will be loud, have bigger muzzle flash, and start to lose significant velocity. After a certain point you will usually only see a 20 - 25 fps difference per inch on a cartridge like the .308.

A 16" barrel in 5.56 burns a very different powder volume than a 16" barrel in a much larger 308win case.

Muzzle blast from a 16" 308win is pretty severe as well, so unless you're shooting a linear comp, fire pig, or suppressor, it's not great to be next to a 16" 308win on a firing line.

I may not want to haul a 26" barrel around hunting with a 308win, but I'd certainly favor a 20" or 22" over a 16".

Thanks for the advice everyone, I've found it very helpful

Calico, you didn't say what animals you will want to hunt or where you will be hunting. Some eastern states don't allow or restrict hunting with centerfire rifles.

The .308 Win is a good caliber for deer size animals, and with proper bullet placement and the right bullet, it is also OK for elk. My preference in a .308 rifle would be a bolt action with a 22-24" barrel. My .308 Win has a 24" barrel.

I don't see anything wrong with Rem 700s. I've had several of them, and the two that I still own (7mm Rem mag and .375 RUM) have each been on multiple international hunts.

Buffybr, I am in the pacific northwest, and in Washington and neighboring Oregon. It seems like elk and black bear are the common choices. Deer is another one but it seems less common from what I've been able to gather. But as I am very new to this I think ill be hunting the dear and elk. Until I can get some experience under my belt. (not that I think it'll be any easier) but seems like there's a wealth of knowledge in my area to tap into as far as those two game animals are concerned. Got to start somewhere right.

Check out Savage rifles. They are very good and fairly priced. I would agree with the above recommendations with a 22-24" barrel. Make sure not so skimp out on optics. They are just as important as the rifle.

Hartski, thanks for the info. I have begun to look at some savage rifles. And I agree about the optics I'm finding in many cases those can be even more expensive then the rifle itself. Any advice on optics? Since I was a wee lad all I've ever used was reflex optics such as red dots and EOtechs.

You should not be comparing the optic cost to the rifle cost. They're too different items with two different purposes. With rifles, almost any rifle out there will shoot well enough to kill deer and elk to 400-600yrds, whether you pay $300 or $3000. With optics, you're much more apt to get what you pay for.

I don't like to use the old cliche' about a $40 saddle and a $5 horse, but it's VERY applicable here, although not for the reasons you might think...

I'm a 7th generation quarterhorse breeder, so that old cliche hits home for me more that it might for most folks. I've been through hundreds of horses, and ridden in dozens of saddles in the last ~20yrs of breaking and training horses. I've ridden a lot of $5 horses that have been fantastic, and equally, I've shot a lot of $250-400 rifles that have been fantastic as well. However, I have NEVER sat in a $5 saddle that was not damaging to my own @ss and my horses' back, and I have NEVER seen a $100 scope that was really clear enough and had the right features to be fully functional for me in the field. So to be 100% honest, putting a $40 saddle on a $5 horse makes a LOT more sense than a $5 saddle - equally, putting a $500 scope on a $200 rifle makes more sense to me than the other way around. A bad saddle can cripple a good horse (literally), and a crap scope will cripple a good rifle (functionally). A great scope won't make a crap rifle more accurate, but to be honest, there really aren't any crap rifles out there on the market these days, pretty much any one of them on the shelf will shoot 1-1.5MOA.

Your optic selection and the price you pay should be about what you want to be able to see, how far away it is, and how well you want to be able to see it. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RIFLE PRICE!!! Great scopes don't make rifles more accurate, but they do help prevent the shooter from screwing up and making a good rifle look bad.

So for a .308win as a deer and elk rifle, I'd be expecting 400yrds or so, possibly in low light, with less than 50yrds being a rather rare occurrence. I'd be looking for a 44 or 50mm objective, with a side parallax focus, in a 3x or 4x low end and up to about 12-16x top end. So a 3.5-10x50, 4-12x44, etc etc. A plain jane 3-9x40mm scope would do fine, but it won't be as functional for you as a larger objective with a bit more magnification.

Leupold VX-3 is a great product line, and worth every penny. The VX2's are a bit cheaper, but not enough savings for me to come out of the VX3's. Nikon Monarch's are better now than they used to be for function, but I've had issues with edge effects at high magnification in every Nikon I have ever shot (doesn't stop me from owning them, just something to live with). Bushnell is much more affordable, but does give up a bit on the clarity and polish (light transmission is surprisingly good, however). Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, US Optics, and Swarovski are other names that are worth their price tags, but at the high end of the spectrum (very high end).

The Leup VX-3 Long Range 4.5-14x50mm either with the standard option Varmint Hunter reticle or the custom shop Mil-Dot is the scope that I find meets all of my hunting needs. Great field of view, bright, clear, crisp, with reliable tracking and a magnification range that lets me see what I'm aiming at, whether it's a squirrel at 40yrds, a coyote at 600yrds, or a whitetail at 400yrds.

Not everyone is a Savage fan (including me), but some guys just love them. They are good rifles and well worth looking at, as are Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Browning, and a few others. They all work well, so look at a few different ones and pick a model that speaks to you. Your opinion is the one that counts.

As for scopes you normally get what you pay for, but you will see diminishing increases in quality after you get to a some price points. For example a top end Swarovski will run somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000. While the Swarovski is fantastic it is not ten times better than a $300 scope. It would be hard to find a bad scope in the $300 price range. I agree that you can not go wrong picking a Leupold.

For deer, elk, bear, etc. you will probably be best served with a variable power scope that has a top magnification of 9 or 10 and an objective lens of 40-42 mm. Everyone has an opinion of what works the best and sometimes we do not agree - but everyone's eyes and needs are different. Nomercy448 knows what he is talking about but this is a small point where his preference is slightly different than mine. Look at the eye relief (distance from the scope and your head) numbers and warranty as well.

I never met a Marine who was not taught how to shoot so no matter what you choose you should be in good shape.

As you have already heard; most modern rifles will out shoot the shooter !

FYI - Most ballistic charts list MV shot from a 24" barrel.

Good bases, rings and scope will make the difference maintaining MOA particularly on longer shots.

Side parallax focus is a MUST for me nowadays !

I prefer shooting sticks to a mounted bipod - although I have a few guns with mounted bipods on them, but I don't carry them up into the mountains.

I mostly "still hunt", so I use lighter rifles for that (8lbs fully rigged).


There is no doubt that your military training will serve you well.


I always tell newbie's if they are hunting with me to make believe that what we are hunting has a gun too.



Lastly, remember to only take the shot you know you can make and not the shot you think you can make !!!


You'll do fine - Enjoy yourself........................

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. It is incredibly helpful. And makes a lot of sense.

My preference is fixed power scopes. Leupold FXII 6X36 and is a nice scope for around $300.

You might also want to consider some other similar cartridges to the .308 Winchester. There are quite a few good choices for the game that you seek and they all offer something slightly different.

I assume that you will not handload, at least not initially, so ammunition variety and availability might be something to consider. Milsurp ammo does not make good hunting ammo and usually makes fairly poor practice ammo. Hopefully your hunting buddy can help you with some of these decisions.

Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it.

Back to the optics, Bushnell makes some very nice scopes, as does Burris. These will be more in the entry level with Ziess, Swarovski, and Leupold being in the upper levels of quality and price.

Calico, Since you posted that you will like to hunt elk, I would recommend that you increase your cartridge to at least a .30-06. I won't argue that a .308 has and will kill elk, but the increased powder capacity of a .30-06 will push heavier bullets a little faster which is beneficial in elk hunting. For a .30-06 or larger cartridge, I would also recommend a 24" barrel.

As for scopes, I have Leupold VX-1s on three of my rifles with which I have killed a ton of game animals around the world . Don't go too big on your scope, especially in the thick woods of the Pacific Northwest. A 3-9x40 is good for most hunting.

For 20 some years I killed an elk almost every year with my .30 Gibbs (.30-06 Improved) with a 3-9x40 Weaver scope. My favorite deer, antelope, and sheep rifle for the past 35 years has worn a 6x Leupold scope. My favorite rifle now for elk and just about everything else in my .300 Weatherby Vanguard with a Leupold VX-1 4-12x40 scope. I've used it on hunts in Texas, Montana, South Africa, and New Zealand.

I also had a Weaver 3-9x40 scope on a Rem 700 in 7mm Rem mag that I used on several Montana hunts, two African hunts, and a Canadian Arctic hunt.

Probably the fanciest and most expensive scope that I have is a Burris Fullfield E 4.5x-14x42 with the Ballistic Plex, and I have it on a .308 that I just use for plinking steel at our local range.

You might find some of this information helpful also..............................

http://elkhunter2.tripod.com/rifle.html

Thanks gentlemen the wealth of knowledge and advice I've gotten from y'all and this sight has been awesome. I've looked into all of your suggestions. And you've all made excellent points. My father also suggested savage rifles (we are starting hunting together.) and the tips for scopes has been awesome. Leupold is actually located about an hour away from me. So me and my dad were going to check them out. When I got back at the end of the month. I have started looking into other rounds like the 30-06. Which I have found is also pretty easy to find like the .308. Now I just gotta find a rifle that speaks to me so to speak lol.

Now a question about ammo. Is there a brand or brands for ammo that are preferable. I know each firearm is typically different, one brand may work great for this weapon but cause jams in another. Which ones should I stay away from.

Once you pick your round/cartridge and buy your new rifle I'd try at least 3 different big name ammo producers and buy their very affordable boxes. I'd try Remington cor-lokt, and Hornady Whitetail lines (to name only 2). If they shoot well in your rifle you are ahead of the game with easily obtainable and inexpensive ammo.

Be prepared to try at least 4 types to find what your rifle likes, and you may find the best stuff on your 6th or 7th box. Sounds like expensive trials, but hey, ... shooting is fun!

Good luck. BTW, either the 30/06 or 308 will serve your purposes. And, just for fun, so are about 10 other cartridges... your choice.

FWIW ... the 30/06 would be hard to beat for availability of guns, ammo, and components.

I don't mind shooting that many times. I love the range. Lol I'm like a little kid begging for 5 more minutes most of the time lol

Rifles may "like" or shoot some weights or brands of bullets better than others.

I shoot and hunt with a variety of rifles, and I only shoot handloads. I have had good results with bullets from Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, and Hornady. Some bullet manufacturers will show a small icon (coyote, deer, elk, target) on their loaded cartridge box for the recommended use of that bullet. You want to match your bullets to the game that you are hunting...you don't want to hunt elk with varmint bullets.

In .30 caliber, I generally liked 150 grain bullets for deer and 180 grain bullets for elk. A bullet recommended for elk will easily kill a deer, however a smaller, lighter bullet recommended for deer may not cleanly kill an elk.

Bullet placement is more important than bullet diameter, weight, or type. Shooting proficiency increases with range time. Shooting off a bench will show you how accurate your bullets and rifle are. Shooting from field positions will show you how accurate you are.

River American 30-06
 

River American 30-06 with a Burris Fullfield scope
Hornady Whitetail 150 gr
This gets you in the woods for under $600.00 and will kill anything in the US
Accurate
Great trigger
Deadly

Buff,

I am going to steal that one from you, but I will accredit you every time I use it ! :happy0001:

Calico--If I was looking for a good rifle I would check out the Marlin X7's. My son bought one last year in stainless for something over $300. He now has two, one in 30-06 and another in 25-06. They seem to be good bolt actions. A year or two ago one of the outdoor mags tested several makes for accuracy, the X7 beat the others by a good margin. Of course, that could have just been that particular rifle. I don't like the looks of a stainless rifle but that is what I would get. I also would go for a plastic stock or something that moisture can not enter. Leupold makes a great scope, I also like Redfield for the same warranty.

Ya by all means get the Tupper wear stock. That big buck grandpa didn't get was due to moisture in the stock and powder.

Wood stocks have been used for century's, so the moisture thing is a load of it. Good walnut sealed is as good as plastic any day.

:D Al

And a whole lot purtier as well!:biggrin:

I personally like my Walnut furniture. Granted I do have a few bolts that I bedded down into some synthetic but they are special purpose rifles for hunting in really sour weather places such as Washington state or British Columbia where you can pretty much bet you are going to get rained on. They are a good bit lighter to carry as well.

Granted, good walnut is beautiful. I find myself being overly careful with my wooden stocked guns. Some I won't take to the woods at all. I do not want to dent or scratch the wood. Most wood stocks are in trouble if they get wet, really wet. The barrel channel and the receiver area are usually without any sealer. So I prefer synthetic stocks and stainless hardware on hunting guns. They are not as pretty as a good blue job and nicely figured wood but they are more durable.

The beauty of America is our freedom of choice. Personally, I do not like stainless and plastic rifles, I like wooden stocks and blued barrels and actions. Yep they get wet but if you take care of your guns after they get wet you won't have a problem. I have had my oldest rifle, mod 88 Win since 1970 and it has seen some very wet and crappy weather and I never had a problem with impact changing because of it getting wet. Wooden stocks have been around for hundreds of years and I suspect they will be around for a while yet, I hope. I have one plastic gun, a 935 Mosberg turkey gun. I only take it out a few times a yead and I try not to look at it except over the sights.:D

Agreed, Oldtimr. Good wood and bluing is far better to look at. I just don't want to damage a thing of beauty. Having said that, I do use a Mark X Mauser that has very good bluing and indifferent wood. I am careful with it, keep a plastic poncho in my pocket in case I get caught in rain with it. It is glass bedded so hopefully the zero would not change if it did get wet. I do use stainless & plastic inlines while the good wood and bluing side hammer stays home, but the weight of the Hawken also is a consideration. I do not "carry", but if I did I would insist on a stainless handgun. Ugly? Yes, but rust on a blue S&W is uglier to me. Hot humid weather in the south is not kind to blued handguns. It is a give and take thing, giving up beauty for more durability. But I am getting way off topic.

I remember as a boy my dad getting a new shot gun a break action single shot. I can still smell the hopps when he opened the bottle to wipe all the grease and oil off the shot gun. I also remember him removing the forearm and butt stock and applying shellac to all the areas that had no finish on them.

Wood is a thing of beauty and plastic isn't.

:D Al

Always Try to Remember;"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". :poke:


I love gear that is indestructible and imperious to weather ! :barmy:


Admittedly wood is beautiful to look at, but I look at "hunting" guns as a tool.


....................and I love them even MORE when they looked USED !!!

I love a beautiful wood finish and bluing and would never sell those guns with it. However, lately, I have been acquiring laminated wood stocked rifles. I have seen some decent looking composite (plastic) stocks but those are usually much higher price than the entry level plastic looking stocks. Oh well, that's why they make bigger gun safes. :wink: