Calico2311

Hartski, thanks for the info. I have begun to look at some savage rifles. And I agree about the optics I'm finding in many cases those can be even more expensive then the rifle itself. Any advice on optics? Since I was a wee lad all I've ever used was reflex optics such as red dots and EOtechs.

Nomercy448

You should not be comparing the optic cost to the rifle cost. They're too different items with two different purposes. With rifles, almost any rifle out there will shoot well enough to kill deer and elk to 400-600yrds, whether you pay $300 or $3000. With optics, you're much more apt to get what you pay for.

I don't like to use the old cliche' about a $40 saddle and a $5 horse, but it's VERY applicable here, although not for the reasons you might think...

I'm a 7th generation quarterhorse breeder, so that old cliche hits home for me more that it might for most folks. I've been through hundreds of horses, and ridden in dozens of saddles in the last ~20yrs of breaking and training horses. I've ridden a lot of $5 horses that have been fantastic, and equally, I've shot a lot of $250-400 rifles that have been fantastic as well. However, I have NEVER sat in a $5 saddle that was not damaging to my own @ss and my horses' back, and I have NEVER seen a $100 scope that was really clear enough and had the right features to be fully functional for me in the field. So to be 100% honest, putting a $40 saddle on a $5 horse makes a LOT more sense than a $5 saddle - equally, putting a $500 scope on a $200 rifle makes more sense to me than the other way around. A bad saddle can cripple a good horse (literally), and a crap scope will cripple a good rifle (functionally). A great scope won't make a crap rifle more accurate, but to be honest, there really aren't any crap rifles out there on the market these days, pretty much any one of them on the shelf will shoot 1-1.5MOA.

Your optic selection and the price you pay should be about what you want to be able to see, how far away it is, and how well you want to be able to see it. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RIFLE PRICE!!! Great scopes don't make rifles more accurate, but they do help prevent the shooter from screwing up and making a good rifle look bad.

So for a .308win as a deer and elk rifle, I'd be expecting 400yrds or so, possibly in low light, with less than 50yrds being a rather rare occurrence. I'd be looking for a 44 or 50mm objective, with a side parallax focus, in a 3x or 4x low end and up to about 12-16x top end. So a 3.5-10x50, 4-12x44, etc etc. A plain jane 3-9x40mm scope would do fine, but it won't be as functional for you as a larger objective with a bit more magnification.

Leupold VX-3 is a great product line, and worth every penny. The VX2's are a bit cheaper, but not enough savings for me to come out of the VX3's. Nikon Monarch's are better now than they used to be for function, but I've had issues with edge effects at high magnification in every Nikon I have ever shot (doesn't stop me from owning them, just something to live with). Bushnell is much more affordable, but does give up a bit on the clarity and polish (light transmission is surprisingly good, however). Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, US Optics, and Swarovski are other names that are worth their price tags, but at the high end of the spectrum (very high end).

The Leup VX-3 Long Range 4.5-14x50mm either with the standard option Varmint Hunter reticle or the custom shop Mil-Dot is the scope that I find meets all of my hunting needs. Great field of view, bright, clear, crisp, with reliable tracking and a magnification range that lets me see what I'm aiming at, whether it's a squirrel at 40yrds, a coyote at 600yrds, or a whitetail at 400yrds.

Big Uncle

Not everyone is a Savage fan (including me), but some guys just love them. They are good rifles and well worth looking at, as are Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Browning, and a few others. They all work well, so look at a few different ones and pick a model that speaks to you. Your opinion is the one that counts.

As for scopes you normally get what you pay for, but you will see diminishing increases in quality after you get to a some price points. For example a top end Swarovski will run somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000. While the Swarovski is fantastic it is not ten times better than a $300 scope. It would be hard to find a bad scope in the $300 price range. I agree that you can not go wrong picking a Leupold.

For deer, elk, bear, etc. you will probably be best served with a variable power scope that has a top magnification of 9 or 10 and an objective lens of 40-42 mm. Everyone has an opinion of what works the best and sometimes we do not agree - but everyone's eyes and needs are different. Nomercy448 knows what he is talking about but this is a small point where his preference is slightly different than mine. Look at the eye relief (distance from the scope and your head) numbers and warranty as well.

I never met a Marine who was not taught how to shoot so no matter what you choose you should be in good shape.

Sheridan

As you have already heard; most modern rifles will out shoot the shooter !

FYI - Most ballistic charts list MV shot from a 24" barrel.

Good bases, rings and scope will make the difference maintaining MOA particularly on longer shots.

Side parallax focus is a MUST for me nowadays !

I prefer shooting sticks to a mounted bipod - although I have a few guns with mounted bipods on them, but I don't carry them up into the mountains.

I mostly "still hunt", so I use lighter rifles for that (8lbs fully rigged).


There is no doubt that your military training will serve you well.


I always tell newbie's if they are hunting with me to make believe that what we are hunting has a gun too.



Lastly, remember to only take the shot you know you can make and not the shot you think you can make !!!


You'll do fine - Enjoy yourself........................

Calico2311

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. It is incredibly helpful. And makes a lot of sense.

jerry d

My preference is fixed power scopes. Leupold FXII 6X36 and is a nice scope for around $300.

Big Uncle

You might also want to consider some other similar cartridges to the .308 Winchester. There are quite a few good choices for the game that you seek and they all offer something slightly different.

I assume that you will not handload, at least not initially, so ammunition variety and availability might be something to consider. Milsurp ammo does not make good hunting ammo and usually makes fairly poor practice ammo. Hopefully your hunting buddy can help you with some of these decisions.

Calico2311

Thanks for the help everyone I really appreciate it.

Hartski

Back to the optics, Bushnell makes some very nice scopes, as does Burris. These will be more in the entry level with Ziess, Swarovski, and Leupold being in the upper levels of quality and price.

buffybr

Calico, Since you posted that you will like to hunt elk, I would recommend that you increase your cartridge to at least a .30-06. I won't argue that a .308 has and will kill elk, but the increased powder capacity of a .30-06 will push heavier bullets a little faster which is beneficial in elk hunting. For a .30-06 or larger cartridge, I would also recommend a 24" barrel.

As for scopes, I have Leupold VX-1s on three of my rifles with which I have killed a ton of game animals around the world . Don't go too big on your scope, especially in the thick woods of the Pacific Northwest. A 3-9x40 is good for most hunting.

For 20 some years I killed an elk almost every year with my .30 Gibbs (.30-06 Improved) with a 3-9x40 Weaver scope. My favorite deer, antelope, and sheep rifle for the past 35 years has worn a 6x Leupold scope. My favorite rifle now for elk and just about everything else in my .300 Weatherby Vanguard with a Leupold VX-1 4-12x40 scope. I've used it on hunts in Texas, Montana, South Africa, and New Zealand.

I also had a Weaver 3-9x40 scope on a Rem 700 in 7mm Rem mag that I used on several Montana hunts, two African hunts, and a Canadian Arctic hunt.

Probably the fanciest and most expensive scope that I have is a Burris Fullfield E 4.5x-14x42 with the Ballistic Plex, and I have it on a .308 that I just use for plinking steel at our local range.