Nomercy448

Single action 6 shot snub nose - would you rather have a .357mag or a .45colt? And why?

Background:

My next revolver project will be a short barreled "sheriff's model" single action carved out of a Ruger New Vaquero. I'll be refitting it with a birdshead grip frame, doing a full action overhaul/rebuild, eliminating the ejector system, and cutting down the barrel to about 2.5". The idea for this one is a super compact single action belt gun, mostly for fun, but a little for CC, and as a 'pack gun' or 'kit gun'.

The Ruger New Vaqueros come in 45colt and .357mag.

I have snub nosed revolvers (DA's) in both 357mag and 45colt, but I just can't step off the fence one way or the other for this project. I've been leaning towards the 45colt and spending the money (a lot of money) to have Ruger make another cylinder in 45acp for it as well. The .357mag would readily swallow 38's, which would save me about $400 over fitting a new cylinder. I know the 357mag will lose a lot less out of short barrel than the 45colt, but a 240-300grn pill isn't anything at which to turn up your nose.

Since the New Vaquero is a "mid-frame," it's not capable of the Tier 3 Ruger only loads in the 45colt, but it will tolerate Tier 2 level loads, which would make suitable for bear defense should I decide to carry this one instead of my other options (not that I'm a supporter of a SA for bear country), whereas the 357mag - even with 158 or 180grn pills - isn't really suitable bear medicine. Not trying to start a war with that, just putting out some of what I've considered for this project.

So, if you were looking for a snub nosed single action six gun, would it be 357mag or 45colt?

CalHunter

I have a Ruger SP101 and it's loud and spits out some flame. Great gun and caliber with a lot of punch. With your Vaquero frame, however, it almost seems just plain wrong not to chamber it in a 45. Kind of like a Colt SAA, a cool gun like that just belongs in 45 caliber. Besides, then when people ask you why it's in 45, you can tell them cause they don't make a 46.

HatchieLuvr

Are you sure the 45LC will lose more velocity in a snubby than a .357? I'd hafta think 180degs of that notion!

180 & even 200grain hard casts are available for the .357. That be about the most potent .357 load you'd get for bears... But there's NO denying that throwing ANYKIND of 250-300+ grn .451 down range IS going to just cause MORE damage & carnage than the ol .357 is capable of!

The ONLY reasonable answer is to get BOTH!

(I'd hate to depend on a SA for CC tho! )

Nomercy448

As would I. As you might see me tout on any other thread on here regarding defensive weapons - whether 2 legged or 4 legged variety - I want as little between "oh $hit" and "bang" as possible when it comes to a defensive shooting scenario.

But I carry a lot of places where I might as well be belt carrying, or would be confident I could go without carrying, so knowing myself, I'll end up sticking this thing IWB at some point.

I've certainly considered that option. I'm not honestly a big fan of the New Vaquero, since I was such a fan of the Big Vaquero that preceded it, and I'm still a little butt-hurt that they shrunk the Vaq's and discontinued the .44mags that I hold so near and dear. BUT, for this project, the smaller mid-frame New Vaquero makes sense.

Rather than getting both cartridges in the mid-frame New Vaquero, what I'm honestly HOPING I can do instead for the 'next iteration' would be to find another Single Six in .32H&R and then have Alan Harton convert it to a 5 shot .38spcl or .357mag. It'll cost an arm and a leg to get the donor gun (running in the $700-800 ball park now), another arm into the birdshead gripframe and panels, another 2 arms and 2 legs to have Harton do the conversion, plus all of the other parts I'd change in the action, but the end result would be pretty d@mn slick - a 2.5" snubby small frame 5 shot .38spcl or .357mag single action birdshead ejectorless sheriff's model... If that's not sexy, then I don't know what is!!!

IF I think that I'll someday do THAT project (all $2500-3000 of it), then the 45colt makes more sense for this one.

You're right about velocity, the lower pressure 45C hangs on a lot better than the 357mag in shorter barrels, but that's not really what I'm talking about. The losses are actually pretty PROPORTIONATELY similar comparing 6 & 7.5" barrels to my snubbies (which track in line with BBTI.com, in case anyone is interested).

I don't mean to say that the 45C will lose more velocity or even energy or momentum than the 357mag - not even PROPORTIONATELY more. But it's really a function of what those fps's mean. It's not hard to find loads for .357mag that are still over 1000fps out of a 1 7/8" barrel with a respectable bullet weight, whereas my 2.5" 45C will be in the 600's in many loads, some loads in the 500's. I'm not expecting a 2.5" revolver to be a long range hunting weapon, or really ANY kind of hunting weapon, but I know myself - I'm going to try to kill stuff with it, just to say I did... and the trajectory on 500fps just sucks Not to mention expansion.

So all signs keep pointing to 45colt. I suppose my larger hang up is that factory 45C fodder is sort of lack-luster, whereas the factory .357mags are typically closer to their top end potential. Even though I roll most of my own, I still consume a steady diet of factory ammo, so I hate painting myself into a corner.

I'll also admit, I'm a 44-a-holic that refuses to go to my meetings, and therefore I always have a chip on my shoulder especially about 45colt, and really any other revolver cartridge that doesn't have "magnum" in its name

HatchieLuvr

lol NM, I got over the "non-mag" years ago when I realized that when you're throwing manhole covers & frying pans at them then velocity isn't as important!

500-600fps IS a concern for expansion with alot of bullets... EXCEPT hardcast! With .45" going in, who needs expansion when you still bored a hole 3/4-completely thru the critter?

& I agree with you about the "new Vaq" BS Ruger has come up with! But I realize for them that market is OWNED by the cowboy shooters & that's what they asked for. I just don't know why they couldn't offer BOTH?

Nomercy448

I know! Offer both!! They could have kept producing the 44caliber Big Vaqueros and renamed them the "Super Vaqueros" or something when they shrank the frames.

Luckily for me, I have 6 of the Big Vaquero smokewagons in .44mag. Two are my old main match revolvers from my cowboy action days, two more are duplicates without as many bells and whistles as my back-ups to my main match set.

Then two of them are "new". Decided I'd finally get to work on a special "sheriff's model" project that I've dubbed my "Mean Lil' Revolvers". Haven't decided yet on finished barrel length, but looking for 3.5-4", birdshead grip, internal overhaul... Certainly destroy any resale value I had in them, but I'm none-too-concerned with that.

This New Vaquero project came along because I had been debating whether the Mean Lil' Revolvers should be ejectorless or not. I finally decided that with 44mag pressures and wanting to shoot the wheels off of them, I'd better keep the ejector. BUT I STILL NEED AN EJECTORLESS SNUBBY!!!! So I figured the smaller framed New Vaquero would be proper for that.

But now I find myself looking at the grass on both sides of the fence, thinking both look mighty green, but knowing as soon as I step down, the side I pick will wither to dust.

cammogunner

i would go with a 357 while not a bear slying cartridge imo niether is the 45 colt if you think you might have issues with ol yogi get a 454..there a lot more gs that sell 357 in my area and as you say a 357 will already use a 38 and the 45 colt will not already except 45 acp however these are both awsome woods/kit guns good luck in you adventure

Sheridan

.375 for me, as you can practice with .38's.


Either are more than capable at close range - After all, snubby's are for close quarters.

burniegoeasily

For punch, the 357 would give you more punch from a short barrel, provided it is a new Vaqureo. An Old Vaquero though, you could really juice up a 45. I load mine up to 44 specs. I agree with Cal, it seems sacrilegious to have a Vaquero in anything but 45 (even though I have one in 44 mag). Or any SAA for that matter.

Nomercy448

I have 6 of the Big Vaqueros in 44mag

4 I have had for a long time, 2 I just purchased to convert into 3.5-4" Birdshead model "kit guns". Very similar to this 357mag/45Colt New Vaquero project, but long enough to have an ejector. I figure the large frame ejectorless snubby doesn't make as much sense as the mid-frame New Vaq will.

I'm honestly surprised, I've posted this on a few sites of late, I'm coming back like 10 to 1 for the 45colt over the 357mag.