remington 700 firing by itself
03-18-2013, 12:29 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
The only time I've found this to occur is when someone incorrectly adjusts the trigger which causes insufficient sear engagement. If the trigger is adjusted improperly the rifle can fire when either the bolt is closed (particularly if closed quickly) or when the safety is disengaged. Either case is a dangerous situation and should be taken to a competent gunsmith for proper adjustment. At least this has been my experience with the older 700s. Its been so long since I've owned a 700 I don't know if they changed the trigger design.
03-18-2013, 01:39 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wahoo Nebraska USA
Posts: 277
I had a 700ml that would go of by its self when the safty was taken off. I was at the bench zeroing it in, so was kind of a good thing as the gun was pointed on the target. I hadn't even adjusted the trigger, same as it came from the factory. Took it back to the house and took the gun apart as well as the trigger. When taking the trigger out a small piece of metal fell out, it had something to do with sear ingaugement. Put a new Timley in it and also in my 700 270win. Just didn't trust the other trigger, because it had gone off when in extreme cold weather when the safty was taken off, this trigger had not been touched from the factory either. You can say what you want, I just don't trust them!!! Don't blame it on that the gun isn't cleaned,mine are cleaned thoughly after every hunt.
03-18-2013, 02:08 PM
#5
RR nailed it...I also have a couple 700's and all of mine have had trigger work done on them (by competent smiths)...one of them has a ton of lead through it, and several hunts behind it...not once have I ever had a problem with them. They are some of the best quality and accurate rifles I have in my safe. Keep them clean, keep oil off the triggers and properly care for them (like any other rifle) and you will have a lifetime of safe service from one. There is a reason that the 700 action is one of the most recommended actions by gun smiths , if not the most, to build custom rifles off of. It's not coincidence...
Last edited by emtrescue6; 03-18-2013 at 02:11 PM.
03-18-2013, 02:15 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
I've personally seen two 700's fire when taking the safety off. Two different rifles both new and made within the last 3 years. Not bashing on Remington just saying I've seen this happen first hand. What is the % that you will get one that has something wrong with it? Not a clue. It has to be very very minimal because if not there would be a total recall on all of them. And it's amazing to me that I have witnessed two occasions within the last 3 years. So I wouldn't worry about it just put the rifle through some tests when you get it, if it don't do it then it probably never will.
03-18-2013, 03:29 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
To the OP: If it's a gun made within the last several years it has a new trigger system, as they finally got rid of the Walker trigger with all the problems in all but the 770 cheapos. The only way I'd ever own an older one would be to change out the trigger for an aftermarket one like a Timney. The actions, as others have stated, are top notch. Mike Walker, the engineer employed by Remington and who designed the trigger in question, wanted it changed before they manufactured many of them decades ago and they wouldn't do it even though the extra cost would have only been a nickle a gun. The company has settled many lawsuits out of court or due to court cases and over 20 people have lost their lives when people unfortunately had them pointed in the wrong direction when they went off without the trigger being touched and they had not been worked on, etc.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 03-18-2013 at 03:33 PM.
03-18-2013, 04:22 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Say all you want about them, but I think it's pretty telling when the engineer that designed them stated they needed to be changed to prevent accidental discharges in both internal memos, as well as in interviews over the issue. From his statements and the fact that they didn't change them out until just a few years ago cost them many millions of dollars. It's a shame when the issue could have been resolved with very little money outlay if they had listened to him decades ago when they were first invented.
03-18-2013, 05:03 PM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
RR - I agree the 700 is a fine rifle and there is nothing wrong with the trigger. But even as the Petzal link shows, in almost every instance I would be willing to bet an incompetent individual tinkered with the trigger adjustments which made the rifle malfunction or the rifle was not maintained as it should have been. But as is the case most of the time the media and society blames an inantimate object instead of human stupidity.
03-18-2013, 05:27 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
This is all I'll put up on the subject and it does show there was a problem that was brought to Remington brass by Walker himself and nothing was done until a modification in 1982 and then the trigger system was scrapped in 2007 when the X-Mark Pro was introduced.
The 700 series of rifles dates back to the 1940s, when Remington—which had been purchased a decade earlier by the giant chemical company DuPont—was transitioning from a major supplier of the war effort to a more consumer-oriented company. DuPont, which sold Remington in 1993, declined to be interviewed, referring inquiries to Remington.
The rifle series—which debuted with the Remington 721—featured a unique trigger system patented by a young Remington engineer named Merle "Mike" Walker. Walker has called his design "a perfect trigger," with a smooth pull favored by expert shooters.
According to Walker's patent, the secret was a tiny piece of metal called a "trigger connector," which is mounted loosely inside the firing mechanism. But critics, including ballistics experts, say small amounts of rust, debris, or even a small jolt can cause the trigger connector to become misaligned, forcing the trigger itself to lose contact with the rest of the firing mechanism.
Then, the gun can be fired when other parts are operated, such as the safety or the bolt. Barbara Barber says her Remington 700 discharged as she moved the safety to the off position to unload the gun. Others have reported their rifles discharging when they opened, closed or even touched the bolt. Internal documents obtained by CNBC show that in 1948—before the gun went on the market—Mike Walker himself proposed a design change to prevent the trigger's internal parts from falling out of alignment.
Other documents show the added cost for Walker's "trigger block" came to pennies per gun, but with the rifle already over budget, officials decided against making a change. Documents show that in later years, Remington decided at least twice—in 1979 and 1994—to abandon the idea of a nationwide recall of the 700 series, in part because officials feared it would undercut their message to the public about firearm safety, including making certain the gun is pointed in a safe direction and not becoming overly reliant on the gun's safety mechanism.
"If proper firearms safety rules are followed, no accidental injuries would ever occur," Remington says in its statement.
But former employees testifying in court cases have claimed that Remington also was careful not to disclose to customers that others had complained about inadvertent discharges. Instead, these employees say, they were instructed to say that every instance was unique. Remington has made some changes in the rifle. In 1982, it eliminated a feature called a "bolt lock," which required the user to switch off the safety in order to unload the gun—a common source of inadvertent discharges.
But Remington did not publicize the change until 2002. That year, Remington came closest to a recall. The company offered—for a $20 fee—to retrofit existing rifles, removing the bolt lock so they could be unloaded with the safety on. The so-called "Safety Modification Program" was part of a settlement with the Barber family, whose rifle was among millions produced before 1982 with a bolt lock.
"The Barber family knows it has our deepest sympathies," Remington said in a press release at the time.
But the overall design of the trigger remained the same, and complaints and lawsuits over inadvertent discharges persisted.
In 2007, partly in response to the lawsuits, Remington introduced a new trigger system for the 700 called the X-Mark Pro. The controversial trigger connector is gone, and the safety includes a trigger block, just as Mike Walker proposed in 1948. However, Remington never instituted a recall of the five million Remington 700s already sold.
The 700 series of rifles dates back to the 1940s, when Remington—which had been purchased a decade earlier by the giant chemical company DuPont—was transitioning from a major supplier of the war effort to a more consumer-oriented company. DuPont, which sold Remington in 1993, declined to be interviewed, referring inquiries to Remington.
The rifle series—which debuted with the Remington 721—featured a unique trigger system patented by a young Remington engineer named Merle "Mike" Walker. Walker has called his design "a perfect trigger," with a smooth pull favored by expert shooters.
According to Walker's patent, the secret was a tiny piece of metal called a "trigger connector," which is mounted loosely inside the firing mechanism. But critics, including ballistics experts, say small amounts of rust, debris, or even a small jolt can cause the trigger connector to become misaligned, forcing the trigger itself to lose contact with the rest of the firing mechanism.
Then, the gun can be fired when other parts are operated, such as the safety or the bolt. Barbara Barber says her Remington 700 discharged as she moved the safety to the off position to unload the gun. Others have reported their rifles discharging when they opened, closed or even touched the bolt. Internal documents obtained by CNBC show that in 1948—before the gun went on the market—Mike Walker himself proposed a design change to prevent the trigger's internal parts from falling out of alignment.
Other documents show the added cost for Walker's "trigger block" came to pennies per gun, but with the rifle already over budget, officials decided against making a change. Documents show that in later years, Remington decided at least twice—in 1979 and 1994—to abandon the idea of a nationwide recall of the 700 series, in part because officials feared it would undercut their message to the public about firearm safety, including making certain the gun is pointed in a safe direction and not becoming overly reliant on the gun's safety mechanism.
"If proper firearms safety rules are followed, no accidental injuries would ever occur," Remington says in its statement.
But former employees testifying in court cases have claimed that Remington also was careful not to disclose to customers that others had complained about inadvertent discharges. Instead, these employees say, they were instructed to say that every instance was unique. Remington has made some changes in the rifle. In 1982, it eliminated a feature called a "bolt lock," which required the user to switch off the safety in order to unload the gun—a common source of inadvertent discharges.
But Remington did not publicize the change until 2002. That year, Remington came closest to a recall. The company offered—for a $20 fee—to retrofit existing rifles, removing the bolt lock so they could be unloaded with the safety on. The so-called "Safety Modification Program" was part of a settlement with the Barber family, whose rifle was among millions produced before 1982 with a bolt lock.
"The Barber family knows it has our deepest sympathies," Remington said in a press release at the time.
But the overall design of the trigger remained the same, and complaints and lawsuits over inadvertent discharges persisted.
In 2007, partly in response to the lawsuits, Remington introduced a new trigger system for the 700 called the X-Mark Pro. The controversial trigger connector is gone, and the safety includes a trigger block, just as Mike Walker proposed in 1948. However, Remington never instituted a recall of the five million Remington 700s already sold.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 03-18-2013 at 05:40 PM.