Help for new .30-378
 

Hi Guys,
Just picked up a new Accumark in .30-378 because the deal was just too good to pass up. What are your experiences with this gun? I' ll mostly be using it for prairie mule deer hunting now and larger game in the future. Can' t find any shells yet, but I' m either going with the 165 Nosler BT or 180 Barnes X until I start reloading. What kind of accuracy can I expect and what would you reccommend to improve it? What are your thoughts on bullets?
thanks.

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

234 welcome to the, " WTF is that a Howitzer?" club lol. I dont shoot a 30/378 but I shoot a cannon that is equally as awesome, Lazzeroni 308 Warbird (Essentially the same case minus the belt and double radiused shoulder for better headspacing and it typically posts 50-100fps faster velocities than an equally setup 378). I bought the gun in 99 (Sako TRG-S) and grow fonder of it with each trigger pull. I specifically bought it for shooting large fields here in TN and gas lines and ranchroads on a lease I was on in TX when I first got the rifle. I have however carried it with me everywhere since. It is typically at home in MO and KS with me as it is here in my homestate of TN.

I site it in for " way out yonder" shooting and dont see why someone would buy such a cannon and NOT set it up likewise, I can shoot deer all day at 300-350yds + with my old 7mag. Its what happens PAST that range that makes big guns like ours really shine! I shoot Lazzeroni' s own 130grain Barnes X bullets (appx 3900fps from my 26" barrel) and have yet to have one even think about coming apart, regardless how close the shot was or what I was shooting thru (typically shoot for lungs, but have busted some shoulders just for experimentation). The bullets are just that danged tough. With such high velocities like our rifles, dependance upon weight for penetration isnt so much of a concern. I drove a doe lengthwise lastyear at 311 yards (rangefinder verified of course). She was facing dead away from me and the bullet still exited in front of her left shoulder. I knew then that more than likely there is NO shot under 500yds on a whitetail/mulie that will stop this bullet. I likewise shot a big buck two years ago at only 45 yds and the bullet still smoked through with very little expansion. To be honest I was expecting a hole like a baseball at that velocity, or complete bullet failure, but the bullet performed perfectly as it was designed to.

Typically the 165-180 loads will be the most accurate, but that was until Barnes' new bullet was released. The 150 Lazerhead. I have spoken with John Lazzeroni on the phone several times and email him as well about different loads and guns. You can take what he says to the bank. I doubt anyone has more hours behind " supermags" than he. He LOVES the 150 Lazerhead and it is deadily accurate yet can still be driven into the 3700-3800fps range without giving up any accuracy. It is an all copper hollowpoint boattail like typical Barnes design, but has some different features that make it more accurate. If you are going to load for this gun, that would be my first pick, elk-mulies-whitetails you name it. John reports that the 150 Lazerhead is penetrating equally to his 180 loads (Nosler Parts and Xbullets). That extra 3-400fps really makes a difference on penetration.

I like shooting the extratough lightweight bullets. You can get the most out of these kinds of guns. I have a 6x24x50 Swarovski PVS scope atop my Sako and with the 130s sighted 3" above the line of sight at 100 yds it is dead on at 400 and only 7" low at 500 (just gotta remember that at 2-250 it will be appx 5" high, but so far that hasnt been a problem, they die equally as fast!). The bullet is STILL making over 2k ft#s of energy at 500 with the lil 130 so power is no problem. At 600 I believe it is appx 1800#s. The 150 should put you right at 2k#s at 600. Short of going to a 50 BMG, I dont know what else makes such an awesome long range rifle! (BTW, I would prefer something different but John told me that he has shot elk and caribou with the 130s and it smoked em but didnt typically recommend them on game over 800#s for most situations.) The 150 Lazerhead just might change everything. I wouldnt mind a 1 bullet load for ANYTHING on this continent while still not sacrificing extra-long range ability. I might try some this season and if so, I' ll let you know how they do. Maxing out the 130s velocities over about 3700fps typically eats into their accuracy. Barnes arent typically as accurate as say a BT or a GameKing anyway. After 3 boxes my rifle tightened up to just under 1.5" at 100yds. It will shoot 180s in half the group, but I am willing to give up a lil accuracy for the awesome trajectory. The 150 tests are shooting in the .5" range, so I might go for that!

I believe 180Xbullets is what WBY offers in Barnes for your gun. That would be a fine load that would kill anything with a pulse, but its just not maximizing the big guns ballistics in my opinion. I REALLY think you are asking for heartache and misery with a Ballistic Tip in a supermag on deersized game. Would be awesome for target and varmints, but I know how fragile the bullets were in guns like my 7mag, I would hate to see what happens when cranked up to near 4k fps in a supermag. A good friend of mine has two 30/378s. One is a custom throated version that can only shoot handloads and the other is a stock version. However they were being finished last season so this will be his first season to get to use the guns. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two, the guns are identical except for the throats and scopes (the stock gun was given to him by his gun building buddy so what the heck!). I' ll let you know how we come out with them. He is going from a 270 to these monster mashers so he is excited to say the least. I know for me, this will be my 4th season with the big rifle and I simply LOVE it and have converted many friends to the " supermags" .

Drop em where they stand!!!
RA

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RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Red, good post and thanks for the advice. The .30-378 is a full 600 fps faster than the venerable .30-06 with a given bullet......

To me it' s designed for distance....I fully concurr a standard 7 Mag will do the job to 350 anyday.

However as it sometimes happens, the target shows up at 65 yards and at those velocities I' d be seriously looking for a bonded bullet or an A-Frame to keep it together. A ballistic tip might be a fabulous bullet for the 450 yard shot (assuming you have the credentials for such shooting) but at 60 yards I' d certainly wish I had a better constructed bullet.

I' ve not tried the Barnes yet but continually hear great things about them. I do have a box of .375 250 grain XFB for my .375 H&H to try out soon! I wonder if I can put one stem to stern on a white tail...

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Red, thanks for the great response to my question. My very first choice in a long range rifle is also the warbird - awesome ballistics and quality. I got too good of a deal to pass up the 30-378 though and I will seriously consider the Barnes 180 for a factory load.

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

I would also go with the 180 gr. Barnes X load. I also recommend you start handloading ASAP. With quality handloading equipment (RCBS) you can probably load your first bullet for about $350.00. According to Cabelas catalogue your going to pay about $83.99 for a box (20 rounds) of .30-378 Wby. Mag. 180 gr. Barnes " X" Bullet. Four boxes of factory loads will cost you about $336.00. Good luck.

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Vap the Xbullet in your 375 will rake SEVERAL deer " stem to stern" lol. You wont find anything short of a Denali moose that would stop that bullet (and even then I would bet on the bullet still exiting the animal). The Xbullets are just that awesome. I have shot them in my Knight smokepole for years and shot a close copy (140 Failsafe) in my 7mag with equal results. I prefer an exit wound to a bullet staying in the animal, but realize that many feel just the opposite. For me its all about penetration (the exact reason for shooting solids on dangerous game!) and with velocities north of 3500fps there are very few alternatives other than the heavy hitters like Barnes, Failsafes, Trophy Bondeds etc... (I shoot 140 TBs in my 280 " brush gun" lol!)

John Lazzeroni actually prefers different terminal performance. He actually shoots animals up to Caribou with his Warbird shooting 168 Matchkings! Yep the hollowpoint papercutter of match shooting fame. He admits it completely explodes on game, but hasnt lost anything with them and loves the sub .5" groups he can get with them. He told me, " I dont care about finding bullet fragments and seperated cores. That doesnt bother me as long as I find the animal that the bullet went into" . He is braver than I. I am willing to give up a little accuracy for awesome terminal performance and the assurance that I am as " equipped to kill" at 50 yds as easily as I am at 500 yds.

A coule of years ago Barnes released a 168 Xbullet in 30cal. I called Mr. Lazzeroni and asked if he had used them. He wasnt aware they had just released it and was excited at the prospect and said he would get some quickly and try them. I spoke to him later after he had tried them and he wasnt impressed. While the bullet still performed as awesomely as any Xbullet would, it didnt yield the expected gain in accuracy so he was still preferring the 168 Matchkings. Its also interesting that most of his guns will hit 1" to the left at 100yds. He said it was to compensate for the rotational torque of the bullet (spinning from the rifling) and that if he didnt sight in that way it would mean several inches of " torque drift" at ranges beyond 500. That was something I never had thought about.

Aint the extremes interesting? :D
RA

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Awesome gun man. I can' t wait to graduate so I can add a .30-378, a .308 Warbird, and a .338/378 to my collection. Good shooting, immense power. Over compensating for something? Aren' t we all.......:([8D]

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Big thats what most guys think anyway (overcompensating!). But I have one for two reasons. I wanted a gun that easily took deer at 500yds plus without concern for lack of power or rainbow trajectories. To get a bullet to 4,5,600yds and still pack a wallop its simple laws of physics, they gotta start out FAAAAST!

Oh and the other reason why... because I wanted one!!! :D
RA

ps
BTW Big, with any one of the guns you mentioned, you wont have a need in the world for either of the other two! But then again, when has " need" ever replaced a desire for a full gunsafe??? ;)

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

The 30-378,warbird and 300ultramag are fine long range cartridges in the hands of a shooter willing to spend the time and ammunition to keep his skills sharp at longer distances.Unfortunately this means practising at long distances and requires hundreds of rounds of practise yearly while many owners are only willing to shoot a box or two per year.As a result many of the people shooting these cartridges are attempting shots that they don' t have the skills to make.

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

These are truly awesome gametaking cartridges in the right hands. They require more than a " passing aquaintance" with long range shooting skills. As long as you have access to a range with 600 to 1000 yard lines, are willing to spend both the time and money, and can tolerate the recoil for the required practice....they are indeed great! (It sounds as if at least a couple of the above members have done that....GOOD!)

Unfortunately, many people buying these rifles probably shouldn' t be trying to shoot " live game animals" at 300 yards with a .30-06! For those of you that indeed do it properly....I am NOT talking about you. Actually it is both stimulating, interesting, and challenging.....to shoot at long range...and do it well. But for many average gunners...they should NOT be doing it. Most can' t even tell you how wind velocities, (from differing " clock positions" ) will affect their shots at any range....let alone long range. Not to mention the effects of mirage, altitude, uphill/downhill slopes, game movement, (before we even mention intervening - unseen vegetation). And as long as we make these distinctions, lest the uninformed become the merely misinformed, we are doing our sport justice! But please, let' s make it clear when we discuss these things.....so those without experience do NOT misunderstand!

Also another consideration that should be mentioned. The superior constructed lighter bullets that do a wonderful job on most game....should probably not be used on large dangerous game. Yes the bullets will penetrate well and kill swiftly on unsuspecting, unwounded, game. And for most hunters, (when backed up by a professional with an appropriate larger bore), they are the only rifle needed. But if you ever need to dive in an alder thicket to sort out either an agitated or wounded Brownie, no .30 caliber is ideal. For one most of these rifles have a minimum of 26" of barrel....not ideal in thick brush....and they rely on bullet velocity for their energy. Even complete penetration doesn' t insure stopping power. Under those conditions a large caliber, premium constructed bullet, that both penetrates and strikes a heavy blow, (ie. bigger hole before expansion), have been proven over time to give dependable results. And I suspect so it will remain until we start using some " pulse energy weapons" , etc.

They are great rifles....and great cartridges.....that offer a superb, experienced, shooter something extra when shooting at long range. But they are not for the inexperienced...(unless they are willing to both put in the range time needed and do a little studying of external ballistics)!

And as an after thought....the Barnes solid copper bullets probably are one of the better choices for these cartridges!

Good luck with your search!

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

ak I guess you' re right. I assume that EVERYONE knows their own limits and that kids/new shooters have enough sense to realize that their gpaws old hand me down 30-30 aint the rifle for poppin bucks 400yds away on the otherside of a large foodplot. In TN I hunt large sections of land that has equally large fields and actually prefer staying out of the woods and " sneakin" in and out of strategically placed stands that command multiple long range views to cover the most ground. By doing so I have found that it actually encourages older bucks to frequent open areas during daylight hours as a result of not being disturbed and hearing and smelling " traffic" in the woods. So I guess my " need" for an extreme range cartridge was actually a necessity or evolvement vs a simple desire to " add another to the gunsafe" .

I grew up shooting and working in my brothers hunting/fishing shops and combined with lessons learned when I spent a year on the rifle team in ROTC while in high school, " bustin em out yonder" just works for me. But I admit, it takes equipment, planning and yes practice! All of my stands for such " assassin" techniques are either full on shooting houses or large ladder stands with proper shooting braces and they afford me and the rifle posistions that are essentially " benchrest quality" . Like I said, I have a 6x24x50 Swarovski that not only " brings em way up" with ease, it also makes holding steady a necessity vs a wish or option. But I STRONGLY feel that it alone is the key to hitting with such ease.

With all the variables being met and accounted for, to me my 24 power at 600 yds feels no different than my old 12 powers did at 300. BUT, notice I said " the variables being met and accounted for" . For the above mentioned " kids/new shooters" that means knowing what the gun is doing at that range well BEFORE trying to stick the bullets in fur covered targets! But I feel its also worth mentioning that todays technology is giving us hunters chances that we have NEVER before had or at least at a far more realistic level of affordability. My above mentioned brothers stores are dealers for all the normal guns as well as guns like my Lazzeroni. As a result we get to " see what they all do" . And amazingly enough we have found that it is simply a " day in day out" occurance to have a completely stock " off the shelf" Sako/Lazzeroni print 9 3/4" -10" groups at 1000yds!!! And those results were with 12power Zeiss' with milldots. I have not yet shot my 24 power at that range. Such performance even 10-15 years ago meant custom rifles and exceptional handloads all of which added to the bottom line.

I consider it, " continual evolution" in the sport itself and also in the tools of the trade as well. I firmly believe that anyone that wants to, can cleanly and consistently kill deer easily in the 400 yard range utilizing a small bit of " modern technology" and of course a lil bit of shooting skill. I have made such " shooters/marksmen" out of hunting buddies of mine that are realatively new to the sport. A good friend of mine since high school just started deer hunting with me 2 years ago. The first year he spent with me he had is grandads old Rem 06 742 with a simple 3x9 Vari X II on it. He killed a couple of deer inside of 300 and was happy. Lastyear right before season (as in the week before I carried him to MO) I pursuaded him to buy a Savage/Lazzeroni Patriot with 3x12x56 Kahles from my brothers place. A day on the range with him and now any deer of his choosing within a quarter of a mile of him is " goin for a ride in the truck" . He isnt an exceptional shooter, just " average" but with better technology in his hands he becomes more proficient (and in my mind, EFFICIENT). I am fully convinced that anyone else who so desires can have the exact same results and it wont cost a fortune to do it either! And in my mind that is the beauty of it. For many the old boundary of " realistic and reasonable" used to be in the 300 yard range. With just a few modifications in tackle, tactics, mindset and preparation, I am fully convinced that 500 yards is a very reasonable and realistic boundary for anyone reading this!

Thanks and good points AK!
RA

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

One day at the range does not make a longe range shooter.It takes regular practise to maintain accuracy at the 400 to 500 yard distances.

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Hi Red,

Your friend is fortunate to have had someone that started him right. And it does make all the difference in the world. Just last summer we watched a young lady, (hadn' t turned 16 yet), put 10 rounds into less than 7" at 1000 yds with a custom 6.5X284. That day a friend of mine, (in his 60' s), decided to have a rifle built chambered for .338 Lapua, a project he is still working on.

With the correct equipment, good coaching, and practice what use to be out of the norm is now not only possible but also consistently achievable. And if you spend time in a gun shop you know from the " chat" that goes around that there are many " misinformed" people out there that do NOT do it correctly. That is what we need to address as a sport. If we don' t resolve these issues within our community...others outside our community (many with ulterior motives) will step in and do it for us! That is my concern.

I have killed enough chucks beyond 400 yards to know that it is not terribly difficult when done properly by a responsible person. But I have also shot enough at truly long ranges to know of the possible challenges. The young lady I referenced above could not have asked for more perfect conditions. An entirely calm day, mild temperatures...nearly no mirage, a known range, and an unmoving target. Spend any time in today' s sniper schools, or a modern KD range (particularly between 600 to 1000 yards) and you begin to understand what is truly possible. If you really want to know the limits...watch a good shooter behind a good rifle chambered for .50 BMG.

All I am saying is that we should be certain to qualify our comments, on this site or in any other forum, to insure that we are doing our sport " no harm" . In the very brief time I have been visiting this site I have noticed that the participants span the range of experience from completely " unknowing" to very experienced. For the benefit of those just learning, particularly those coming from a background not fortunate enough to have been raised in a knowledgeable environment, and in some cases even a " hostile towards firearms" upbringing, we should insure we qualify information that can otherwise be easily misunderstood.

I wholeheartedly concur that good equipment and good optics have made the task much more certain. (Even when hunting heavily wooded/brushy terrain for whitetails I always have a pair of 8X30 Swarovsky' s around my neck.) But even with the best equipment there is a minimum amount of skill, knowledge, and ethics, that are required. Just as an archer can exceed their limitations, (in spite of the vastly superior technology compared to just two decades ago), so can a rifleman. I agree with you wholeheartedly in that " positive mentoring" by those that do it properly is the best solution.

Continued good luck and enjoyment!

RE: Help for new .30-378
 

Well the verdict is in as I have just gotten back from the range and this Accumark is by far the finest factory rifle that I have ever shot. Perfect trigger, kicks much less than my .45 cal. Knight and about the same as my 7mm mag. and shot 3" five shot groups at 300 yards with 180 barnes factory bullets. Thanks for all of your input and discussion.